Subject: Problem with AutoCAD file From: jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:25:25 -0000 (UTC) Hi all, I got the autoCAD file for this seismomter, http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm The autoCAD file appears to contain two layers of drawings, and I am not sure how to change that, so that we can see the drawing clearly. If there is a newer autoCAD file for this seismomter. I would like to get that file, so I can keep up with development progress. Regards, Jón Frímann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: BBC News artical From: jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:34:52 -0000 (UTC) Hi all, Here is a intersting BBC News artical on how distant earthquakes can weaken fault lines. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8283873.stm Regards, Jón Frímann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 01:52:43 +0000 Hi all, I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that are also giving me the nessary clues to this. I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time frame, but I also might not get one at all. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 02:08:17 -0000 All. The region where the quakes are occurring is small volcanic area . There have been small eruptions and lava flows within the past century. The China Lake Navy base in that area actually has a geothermal power or heating system which exploits heat from below the lava field . There are small cinder cones clearly visible from highway 395 as you drive through the Owens Valley. However there was a very large quake in that area in 1872 estimated between 7.6 and 8. More likely just a small swarm but who knows . Dave Nelson ~200Km south ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jón Frímann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52 Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! Hi all, I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that are also giving me the nessary clues to this. I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time frame, but I also might not get one at all. Regards, -- Jón Frímann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: Canie canie@........... Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 19:38:36 -0700 This is kinda north of the volcanic area and more=20 on the south end of the (dry) Owens lake=20 bed.. they are strike slip quakes.. see the commentary here: http://www.scsn.org/ and here: http://www.scsn.org/commentary/ There's a google earth map:=20 http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/ci14519780.kml=20 and I have mine set to include all quakes within=20 the last couple of weeks - you can see the pattern of the quakes.. It is rather interesting.. Canie At 07:08 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote: >All. > >The region where the quakes are occurring is=20 >small volcanic area . There have been small=20 >eruptions and lava flows within the past=20 >century. The China Lake Navy base in that=20 >area actually has a geothermal power or heating=20 >system which exploits heat from below the lava=20 >field . There are small cinder cones clearly=20 >visible from highway 395 as you drive through the Owens Valley. > >However there was a very large quake in that=20 >area in 1872 estimated between 7.6 and 8. > >More likely just a small swarm but who knows . > >Dave Nelson > >~200Km south > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "J=F3n Fr=EDmann" >To: "PSN-Postlist" >Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52 >Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! > > >Hi all, > >I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in >Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a >pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that >to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% >chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is >also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that >are also giving me the nessary clues to this. > >I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might >happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time >frame, but I also might not get one at all. > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >http://www.jonfr.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email=20 >PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of=20 >the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Risk of Large earthquake in California! From: "Kareem" system98765@............. Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 20:32:46 -0700 We do have a full moon coming up this Sunday; so if there are = correlations with the full/new moons and the occurrence of significant seismic events = and some researchers believe this to be the case, then I would tend to agree that the chances are certainly much higher these next few days. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 6:53 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! Hi all, I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that are also giving me the nessary clues to this. I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time frame, but I also might not get one at all. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 03:39:24 -0000 I agree-- very interesting . Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Canie" To: Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 02:38 Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! This is kinda north of the volcanic area and more on the south end of the (dry) Owens lake bed.. they are strike slip quakes.. see the commentary here: http://www.scsn.org/ and here: http://www.scsn.org/commentary/ There's a google earth map: http://quake.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/ci14519780.kml and I have mine set to include all quakes within the last couple of weeks - you can see the pattern of the quakes.. It is rather interesting.. Canie At 07:08 PM 10/2/2009, you wrote: >All. > >The region where the quakes are occurring is small volcanic area . There >have been small eruptions and lava flows within the past century. The China >Lake Navy base in that area actually has a geothermal power or heating >system which exploits heat from below the lava field . There are small >cinder cones clearly visible from highway 395 as you drive through the >Owens Valley. > >However there was a very large quake in that area in 1872 estimated between >7.6 and 8. > >More likely just a small swarm but who knows . > >Dave Nelson > >~200Km south > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Jón Frímann" >To: "PSN-Postlist" >Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52 >Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! > > >Hi all, > >I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in >Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a >pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that >to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% >chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is >also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that >are also giving me the nessary clues to this. > >I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might >happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time >frame, but I also might not get one at all. > >Regards, >-- >Jón Frímann > >http://www.jonfr.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the >message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 09:10:34 -0700 (PDT) All I did a study years ago. I won't go into it no. I divided California and we= stern Nevada into an east and west zone (relating to the two major fault li= nes). I then plotted energy dissipation related to latitude. If memory serv= es me well this was an area that was over due. I guess time will tell. I wr= ote the program in Basic. Maybe I'll dig it up and refresh my memory. Barry=20 --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dave Nelson wrote: From: Dave Nelson Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 7:08 PM All. The region where the quakes are occurring is small=A0 volcanic area . There= have been small eruptions and lava flows within the past century. The Chin= a Lake Navy base in that area=A0 actually has a geothermal power or heating= system which exploits heat from below=A0 the lava field . There are small = cinder cones clearly visible from highway 395 as you drive through the Owen= s Valley. However there was a very large quake in that area in 1872 estimated between= 7.6 and 8. More likely just a small swarm but who knows . Dave Nelson ~200Km south ----- Original Message ----- From: "J=F3n Fr=EDmann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52 Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! Hi all, I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that are also giving me the nessary clues to this. I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time frame, but I also might not get one at all. Regards, -- J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
All
I did a study years ago. I won't go in= to it no. I divided California and western Nevada into an east and west zon= e (relating to the two major fault lines). I then plotted energy dissipatio= n related to latitude. If memory serves me well this was an area that was o= ver due. I guess time will tell. I wrote the program in Basic. Maybe I'll d= ig it up and refresh my memory.
Barry
--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dave N= elson <davefnelson@.......> wrote:

From: Dave Nelson <davefnelson@.......>
Subject: Re: Risk= of Large earthquake in Californina!
To: psn-l@............. om
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 7:08 PM


All.

The region where the quakes are occurring is small  volcanic area . There have been small eruptions and lava flows within the = past century. The China Lake Navy base in that area  actually has a ge= othermal power or heating system which exploits heat from below  the l= ava field . There are small cinder cones clearly visible from highway 395 a= s you drive through the Owens Valley.

However there was a very large= quake in that area in 1872 estimated between 7.6 and 8.

More likely= just a small swarm but who knows .

Dave Nelson

~200Km south<= br>





----- Original Message ----- From: "J=F3n Fr=EDm= ann" <jonfr@.........>
To: "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@..............>
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52=
Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina!


Hi all,

I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in=
Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are apre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate thatto be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60%
cha= nce of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is
also a= small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that
are also= giving me the nessary clues to this.

I don't have a time a good tim= eframe at this momemt. But this might
happen in the next 2 - 180 hours t= ime period. I might get a good time
frame, but I also might not get one = at all.

Regards,
-- J=F3n Fr=EDmann

http://www.jonfr.com

______________= ____________________________________________

Public Seismic Network = Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the b= ody of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.c= om/maillist.html for more information.


_____________________= _____________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing= List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line= only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = information.
Subject: RE: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 17:18:37 -0700 This is not uncommon in this region. The following comes from Richter, (Elementaly Seismology, C.F. Richter, 1958, p.71 =96 Earthquake Swarms) = =93 Certain localities are frequently visited by earthquake swarms, long = series of large and small shocks with one outstanding principal event. Such = swarms are common in volcanic regions; they often occur before and during eruptions=94 snip-snip some text =93 sometimes as many as 100 a day are occasionally recorded at the Haiwee seismological station in Owens = Valley.=94=20 =20 Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA =20 =20 =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Barry Lotz Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 9:11 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! =20 All I did a study years ago. I won't go into it no. I divided California and western Nevada into an east and west zone (relating to the two major = fault lines). I then plotted energy dissipation related to latitude. If memory serves me well this was an area that was over due. I guess time will = tell. I wrote the program in Basic. Maybe I'll dig it up and refresh my memory. Barry=20 --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dave Nelson wrote: From: Dave Nelson Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 7:08 PM All. The region where the quakes are occurring is small volcanic area . = There have been small eruptions and lava flows within the past century. The = China Lake Navy base in that area actually has a geothermal power or heating system which exploits heat from below the lava field . There are small cinder cones clearly visible from highway 395 as you drive through the = Owens Valley. However there was a very large quake in that area in 1872 estimated = between 7.6 and 8. More likely just a small swarm but who knows . Dave Nelson ~200Km south ----- Original Message ----- From: "J=F3n Fr=EDmann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52 Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! Hi all, I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate that to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that are also giving me the nessary clues to this. I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time frame, but I also might not get one at all. Regards, -- J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. =20

This is not uncommon in this region. The following comes = from Richter, (Elementaly Seismology, C.F. Richter, 1958, p.71 – = Earthquake Swarms) “ Certain localities are frequently visited by earthquake swarms, = long series of large and small shocks with one outstanding principal event. = Such swarms are common in volcanic regions; they often occur before and = during eruptions” snip-snip some text “ sometimes as many as 100 a = day are occasionally recorded at the Haiwee seismological station in Owens = Valley.”

 

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, = CA

 

 

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Barry Lotz
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 9:11 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in = Californina!

 

All
I did a study years ago. I won't go into it no. I divided California = and western Nevada into an east and west zone (relating to the two major = fault lines). I then plotted energy dissipation related to latitude. If = memory serves me well this was an area that was over due. I guess time will = tell. I wrote the program in Basic. Maybe I'll dig it up and refresh my = memory.
Barry
--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dave Nelson = <davefnelson@.......> wrote:


From: Dave Nelson <davefnelson@.......>
Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina!
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 7:08 PM


All.

The region where the quakes are occurring is small  volcanic area = . There have been small eruptions and lava flows within the past = century. The China Lake Navy base in that area  actually has a geothermal = power or heating system which exploits heat from below  the lava field . = There are small cinder cones clearly visible from highway 395 as you drive = through the Owens Valley.

However there was a very large quake in that area in 1872 estimated = between 7.6 and 8.

More likely just a small swarm but who knows .

Dave Nelson

~200Km south






----- Original Message ----- From: "J=F3n Fr=EDmann" <jonfr@.........>
To: "PSN-Postlist" <PSN-L@..............&g= t;
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52
Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina!


Hi all,

I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in
Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are = a
pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate = that
to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about = 60%
chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There = is
also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor = that
are also giving me the nessary clues to this.

I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this = might
happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good = time
frame, but I also might not get one at all.

Regards,
-- J=F3n Fr=EDmann

http://www.jonfr.com

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEIS= MICNET.COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.


__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEIS= MICNET.COM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

 =

Subject: RE: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 01:38:48 +0000 Hello, As that may be. The risk of a large earthquake at this area is still remaning. Weather my prediction will come true is a other issue, they do fail on a farily routine basic, even for my best effort trying to read into earthquake patterns and the data collected. This area might be volcanic. But there has been little activie in this area for some time now, the unceartinys are great. See more here, http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=3D1203 The current risk of a large earthquake are dropping, but they are still there. Regards, J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann. On lau, 2009-10-03 at 17:18 -0700, Stephen Hammond wrote: > This is not uncommon in this region. The following comes from Richter, > (Elementaly Seismology, C.F. Richter, 1958, p.71 =E2=80=93 Earthquake Swa= rms) > =E2=80=9C Certain localities are frequently visited by earthquake swarms,= long > series of large and small shocks with one outstanding principal event. > Such swarms are common in volcanic regions; they often occur before > and during eruptions=E2=80=9D snip-snip some text =E2=80=9C sometimes as = many as 100 a > day are occasionally recorded at the Haiwee seismological station in > Owens Valley.=E2=80=9D=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Barry Lotz > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 9:11 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > All > I did a study years ago. I won't go into it no. I divided California > and western Nevada into an east and west zone (relating to the two > major fault lines). I then plotted energy dissipation related to > latitude. If memory serves me well this was an area that was over due. > I guess time will tell. I wrote the program in Basic. Maybe I'll dig > it up and refresh my memory. > Barry=20 > --- On Fri, 10/2/09, Dave Nelson wrote: >=20 >=20 > From: Dave Nelson > Subject: Re: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 7:08 PM >=20 >=20 > All. >=20 > The region where the quakes are occurring is small volcanic area . > There have been small eruptions and lava flows within the past > century. The China Lake Navy base in that area actually has a > geothermal power or heating system which exploits heat from below the > lava field . There are small cinder cones clearly visible from highway > 395 as you drive through the Owens Valley. >=20 > However there was a very large quake in that area in 1872 estimated > between 7.6 and 8. >=20 > More likely just a small swarm but who knows . >=20 > Dave Nelson >=20 > ~200Km south >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann" > To: "PSN-Postlist" > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 01:52 > Subject: Risk of Large earthquake in Californina! >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I've been watching the earthquakes that have been happening in > Californina this past minites. This earthquakes look like they are a > pre-earthquake squance to a bigger earthquake. I at least estimate > that > to be a higher chance, then it not to be. I would give it about 60% > chance of happening, and about 40% chance of not happening. There is > also a small earthquake pattern that I am seeing on local sensor that > are also giving me the nessary clues to this. >=20 > I don't have a time a good timeframe at this momemt. But this might > happen in the next 2 - 180 hours time period. I might get a good time > frame, but I also might not get one at all. >=20 > Regards, > -- J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann >=20 > http://www.jonfr.com >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 10:22:52 -0500 How many of you have gotten good copy on quakes deeper than this? Lay & Wallace indicate that 650 km and more is rare. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 11:43:38 -0400 Thomas, Thanks for pointing that out. I should have noticed, considering the almost complete absence of surface waves. It gives a great opportunity, though, to see all the body phases which are usually obscured by the big surface stuff. I'm pretty sure that's the deepest that we've seen. Regards, Brett At 10:22 AM 10/4/2009 -0500, you wrote: >How many of you have gotten good copy on quakes deeper than this? Lay & >Wallace indicate that 650 km and more is rare. Watch our wiggles http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm or watch some very very good wiggles http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 09:45:01 -0600 Hi Dick, I did not get this one, but looking at my log sheet I have recorded: 385km Japan 547km Argentina 487km Sea of Okhotsk 303km Japan All from this location in Idaho USA Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dick" To: Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 9:22 AM Subject: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines > How many of you have gotten good copy on quakes deeper than this? Lay & > Wallace indicate that 650 km and more is rare. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 12:36:44 -0500 I did not get this one, but looking at my log sheet I have recorded: > 385km Japan > 547km Argentina > 487km Sea of Okhotsk > 303km Japan > Thanks for info, it was quiet here this morning. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:29:16 +1100 Thomas and Co keep an eye on the quakes particularly in the New Zealand to Tonga region (The Tonga Kermadec Trench) and you will regularly see events >600km in depth. Some years back this same topic came up and I remember commenting on the areas had I had done plots of depth V's locating and it was a good personal study into subduction zones... the angle of the subducting slab depths they were getting to etc. Look for regions where the plate motions are very high >6.5cm / year to show the regions of the deepest quakes. As I also mentioned that last time look at Alan Jone's software that plots all the data for you in 3 dimensions :) Cheers Dave Nelson Sydney Oz At 11:43 AM 10/4/2009 -0400, you wrote: >Thomas, > >Thanks for pointing that out. I should have noticed, considering the >almost complete absence of surface waves. It gives a great opportunity, >though, to see all the body phases which are usually obscured by the big >surface stuff. I'm pretty sure that's the deepest that we've seen. > >Regards, >Brett > >At 10:22 AM 10/4/2009 -0500, you wrote: >>How many of you have gotten good copy on quakes deeper than this? Lay & >>Wallace indicate that 650 km and more is rare. > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 19:44:38 -0500 Hey Dave, What did you mean by " Alan Jone's software that plots all the data for you in 3 dimensions"? Not familiar with this software. Is this the Purdue University Alan Jones? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Deep quakes like the one in the Phillippines From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:23:17 +1100 Hey Thomas http://pods.binghamton.edu/~ajones/ yup if you havent got his progs they are well worth it :) Dave At 07:44 PM 10/4/2009 -0500, you wrote: >Hey Dave, > >What did you mean by " Alan Jone's software that plots all the data for >you in 3 dimensions"? Not familiar with this software. Is this the Purdue >University Alan Jones? >__________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Many large earthquakes From: jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 02:39:58 -0000 (UTC) Hi all, There are quite many earthquakes happening at this moment. Just now there was a Mw6.9 earthquake (02:12 UTC 8. October 2009). This is quite interesting. I am expecting more large earthquakes. I am also expecting nearby faults to be activated by this earthquake sequence. Regards, Jón Frímann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Many large earthquakes From: "Kareem" system98765@............. Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:18:25 -0700 Yeah, seems to be quite active sequences all around. As for that area, = it seems that since the 9.0 event few years back, the sequences there have included numerous 7.0 and higher events. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of jonfr@......... Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:40 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Many large earthquakes Hi all, There are quite many earthquakes happening at this moment. Just now = there was a Mw6.9 earthquake (02:12 UTC 8. October 2009). This is quite interesting. I am expecting more large earthquakes. I am also expecting nearby faults to be activated by this earthquake = sequence. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Many large earthquakes From: jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 00:28:36 -0000 (UTC) Hi all, This earthquake swarm continues, with a little slow down it seems. The mag 7.0 earthquakes appears to have stopped, for now anyway. But there are still many mag 6.0 earthquakes happening. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Yeah, seems to be quite active sequences all around. As for that area, it > seems that since the 9.0 event few years back, the sequences there have > included numerous 7.0 and higher events. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > Behalf Of jonfr@......... > Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 7:40 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Many large earthquakes > > Hi all, > > There are quite many earthquakes happening at this moment. Just now there > was a Mw6.9 earthquake (02:12 UTC 8. October 2009). > > This is quite interesting. I am expecting more large earthquakes. I am > also expecting nearby faults to be activated by this earthquake sequence. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Equipment Search From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:55:28 -0500 October 10,2009 Good Morning All, I am acquiring a vertical sensor and would like to get a horizontal (or two ideally). I've looked into the two units from the UK (SEP and HS-3). If anyone has or spots one, please contact me directly ( gpayton at uspaytons dot com. ) Thank you, Jerry Payton
October 10,2009
 
Good Morning All,
 
I am acquiring a vertical sensor and would like = to get a=20 horizontal (or two ideally).   I've looked into the two units = from the=20 UK (SEP and HS-3).
 
If anyone has or spots one, please contact me = directly=20 (  gpayton at uspaytons dot com.  )
 
Thank you,
Jerry Payton
Subject: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: kevin.mckee@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:27:19 -0400 Hi - I just joined this e-mail list, and noticed some of the discussion about the seismometer project I posted at http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com/home There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise. I performed a number of tests before I completed the seismometer (several years ago now) to satisfy my own concerns in that regard. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. I've actually found the two devices that I've built (facing orthogonally) to be very sensitive. I've put together a rough distance-magnitude threshold detection plot that I can forward to anyone who is interested. The weakest quake I've detected is a magnitude 2.0, about 0.05 degrees (about 3 miles) away. The common phases are easily picked out of the signal, depending on the quake origin. The larger factor in the devices' sensitivity is that I mounted them on a basement slab under the stairs to my front porch, which means that they detects the comings and goings of my family too (I sometimes used this fact to check up on my daughters' returns from dates). I believe that I am detecting microseismic background with the instrument too, rather than air currents. Regarding the fact that the sensor is a displacement sensor vice a velocity sensor--I don't see that as a problem. As with a capacitive /radio frequency force-balance sensor, electronic filters and amplifiers can be used to translate the signal into a velocity response, if that is what is desired. In fact using the appropriate filter amplifier combination gets around any concerns like those expressed about the resolution of the optical sensing devices--electronic integration works very well for that. Kevin McKee, Burke, VA __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:13:04 EDT In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, kevin.mckee@....... writes: There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. Hi Kevin, You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able to pick up microseisms all the time. You can build a very good detector using two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time,=20 kevin.mckee@....... writes:
There=20 seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be ver= y=20 noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise.= I used=20 various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked= the=20 pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking= up=20 noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier= was=20 maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources.= =20
Hi Kevin,
 
    You seem to be experiencing apparatus problem= s.=20 Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary= in=20 light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. The= y are=20 both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage sourc= e.=20 Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able= to pick=20 up microseisms all the time.
    You can build a very good detector using two= large=20 area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a no= ise=20 level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a sin= gle=20 detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransist= ors=20 are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrom= e wire=20 which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single gl= ass or=20 carbon filament.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
 
    
Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:18:47 -0600 Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a = differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could = you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the = amp just use easy to find op amps? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, = kevin.mckee@....... writes: There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly = or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause = for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in = some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether = the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line = even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter = than other light sources.=20 Hi Kevin, You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are = much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output = by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both = more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. = Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able = to pick up microseisms all the time. You can build a very good detector using two large area Si = photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise = level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a = single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. = Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can = get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. = Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament.=20 Regards, Chris Chapman
Hi Chris,  the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to = a=20 differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try.  = Could=20 you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch?   = Does the=20 amp just use easy to find op amps?
 
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Thursday, October 15, = 2009 4:13=20 PM
Subject: Re: Torsion = Seismometer in a=20 jar

In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, kevin.mckee@....... = writes:
There=20 seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be = very=20 noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for = noise. I=20 used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some = cases, locked=20 the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was = picking=20 up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the = amplifier=20 was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light = sources.=20
Hi Kevin,
 
    You seem to be experiencing apparatus = problems.=20 Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both = vary in=20 light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. = They=20 are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated = voltage=20 source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You = should be=20 able to pick up microseisms all the time.
    You can build a very good detector using = two=20 large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. = I get a=20 noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability = with a=20 single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated.=20 Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can = get very=20 fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, = you can=20 use a single glass or carbon filament.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
 
    
Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:49:17 EDT In a message dated 16/10/2009, tchannel@............ writes: Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the amp just use easy to find op amps? Thanks, Ted Hi Ted, Check out the notes and the circuit at _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html_ (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html) This circuit works fine. You need the INA118 or similar to get the very high CMRR common mode rejection ratio. You may need to alter filter values to suit your application. The photocells drive current into the opamps, so they run at 0V and there is no leakage current. I usually use a miniature filament bulb driven from a stabilised voltage and a lens to give a ~parallel light beam. You can use an IR LED if you provide an auxiliary Si photodiode and a feedback amplifier to stabilise the photo output. Otherwise it drifts all over the place. I use two small razor blades for the sides of the shutter, painted matt black, but with clean edges. They move just clear of the surface of the photocells. I measured the noise level at about 14 nano metres. There is inevitably some heat associated with the bulb. I suggest placing the bulb in a separate housing on top of the sensor. You under run the bulb voltage supply to give ~infinite life. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 16/10/2009, tchannel@............ writes:
Hi Chris,  the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to= a=20 differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. = Could=20 you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch?  = Does=20 the amp just use easy to find op amps?
 
Thanks, Ted
Hi Ted,
 
    Check out the notes and the circuit at  = htt= p://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html
    This circuit works fine. You need the INA118= or=20 similar to get the very high CMRR common mode rejection ratio. You may nee= d to=20 alter filter values to suit your application. The photocells drive current= into=20 the opamps, so they run at 0V and there is no leakage current. I usually= use=20 a miniature filament bulb driven from a stabilised voltage and a lens= to=20 give a ~parallel light beam. You can use an IR LED if you provide an auxil= iary=20 Si photodiode and a feedback amplifier to stabilise the photo output. Othe= rwise=20 it drifts all over the place. I use two small razor blades for the sides= of the=20 shutter, painted matt black, but with clean edges. They move just clear of= the=20 surface of the photocells.  I measured the noise level at about 14 na= no=20 metres. There is inevitably some heat associated with the bulb. I suggest= =20 placing the bulb in a separate housing on top of the sensor. You under run= the=20 bulb voltage supply to give ~infinite life.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:07:15 -0700 If you used a current source to keep a steady 10ma or 20 ma to the LED would that not be adequate stability for the light output also ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the amp just use easy to find op amps? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, kevin.mckee@....... writes: There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. Hi Kevin, You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able to pick up microseisms all the time. You can build a very good detector using two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament. Regards, Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:12:32 EDT In a message dated 16/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes: If you used a current source to keep a steady 10ma or 20 ma to the LED would that not be adequate stability for the light output also ? Hi Geoff, No chance. The photo output at a constant current depends on the junction temperature. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 16/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes:
If you=20 used a current source to keep a steady
10ma or 20 ma to the LED would= that=20 not be
adequate stability for the light output also=20 ?
Hi Geoff,
 
    No chance. The photo output at a constant cur= rent=20 depends on the junction temperature.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:04:54 +0000 Hi, Is is possible to edit this design so it doesn't use glass jar and other weak material ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2009-10-15 at 16:27 -0400, kevin.mckee@....... wrote: > Hi - > I just joined this e-mail list, and noticed some of the discussion about = the seismometer project I posted at http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com= /home >=20 > There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or b= e very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for nois= e. I performed a number of tests before I completed the seismometer (severa= l years ago now) to satisfy my own concerns in that regard. I used various = incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulu= m in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise = from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed = out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources.=20 >=20 > I've actually found the two devices that I've built (facing orthogonally)= to be very sensitive. I've put together a rough distance-magnitude thresh= old detection plot that I can forward to anyone who is interested. The weak= est quake I've detected is a magnitude 2.0, about 0.05 degrees (about 3 mil= es) away. The common phases are easily picked out of the signal, depending= on the quake origin.=20 >=20 > The larger factor in the devices' sensitivity is that I mounted them on a= basement slab under the stairs to my front porch, which means that they d= etects the comings and goings of my family too (I sometimes used this fact = to check up on my daughters' returns from dates). >=20 > I believe that I am detecting microseismic background with the instrument= too, rather than air currents.=20 >=20 > Regarding the fact that the sensor is a displacement sensor vice a veloci= ty sensor--I don't see that as a problem. As with a capacitive /radio frequ= ency force-balance sensor, electronic filters and amplifiers can be used to= translate the signal into a velocity response, if that is what is desired.= In fact using the appropriate filter amplifier combination gets around any= concerns like those expressed about the resolution of the optical sensing = devices--electronic integration works very well for that. >=20 >=20 > Kevin McKee, Burke, VA > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Digest from 10/15/2009 00:01:59 From: kevin.mckee@....... Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 5:21:13 -0400 Perhaps one or both of my postings weren't clear. The devices rest on a basement slab in a conditioned space. They are enclosed by a thick Styrofoam box which significantly reduces air currents. These two factors reduce the temperature variation of the instruments, although I don't doubt there could be a couple of degrees variation over the course of long periods relative to the period of the damped pendulum/filter combinations. Because that temperature varies over relatively long times, however, I judge that it is trivial after considering that the ac-coupled integrator suppresses signals longer than about 20 seconds. Also, the instruments use glass fibers for the torsion fiber and glass jars for the structural supports in part to reduce the effects of thermal contraction and expansion. Glass has a significantly lower thermal expansion coefficient than any of the metal pendulums used for the Lehman instruments of which I am aware, for example. Moreover, the dimension of the expansion is orthogonal to the directional sensitivity of the instrument; I hoped that this would further reduce sensitivity to thermal variation. I recognize that this instrument is not a lab quality instrument, but for something that can be built so cheaply and easily by anyone without a lot of technical or machining skills it's a very useful device. I've detected at least 120 earthquakes from all over the world with it. Why discourage folks out there who don't have the skills or $ to build a Porsche when a Ford will get the job done, while spreading the fun of doing science? Kevin McKee, burke, VA ---- psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: ============= ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 1 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:27:19 -0400 Hi - I just joined this e-mail list, and noticed some of the discussion about the seismometer project I posted at http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com/home There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise. I performed a number of tests before I completed the seismometer (several years ago now) to satisfy my own concerns in that regard. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. I've actually found the two devices that I've built (facing orthogonally) to be very sensitive. I've put together a rough distance-magnitude threshold detection plot that I can forward to anyone who is interested. The weakest quake I've detected is a magnitude 2.0, about 0.05 degrees (about 3 miles) away. The common phases are easily picked out of the signal, depending on the quake origin. The larger factor in the devices' sensitivity is that I mounted them on a basement slab under the stairs to my front porch, which means that they detects the comings and goings of my family too (I sometimes used this fact to check up on my daughters' returns from dates). I believe that I am detecting microseismic background with the instrument too, rather than air currents. Regarding the fact that the sensor is a displacement sensor vice a velocity sensor--I don't see that as a problem. As with a capacitive /radio frequency force-balance sensor, electronic filters and amplifiers can be used to translate the signal into a velocity response, if that is what is desired. In fact using the appropriate filter amplifier combination gets around any concerns like those expressed about the resolution of the optical sensing devices--electronic integration works very well for that. Kevin McKee, Burke, VA ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 2 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:13:04 EDT -------------------------------1255644784 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, kevin.mckee@....... writes: There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. Hi Kevin, You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able to pick up microseisms all the time. You can build a very good detector using two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament. Regards, Chris Chapman -------------------------------1255644784 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time,=20 kevin.mckee@....... writes:
There=20 seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be ver= y=20 noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise.= I used=20 various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked= the=20 pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking= up=20 noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier= was=20 maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources.= =20
Hi Kevin,
 
    You seem to be experiencing apparatus problem= s.=20 Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary= in=20 light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. The= y are=20 both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage sourc= e.=20 Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able= to pick=20 up microseisms all the time.
    You can build a very good detector using two= large=20 area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a no= ise=20 level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a sin= gle=20 detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransist= ors=20 are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrom= e wire=20 which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single gl= ass or=20 carbon filament.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
 
    
-------------------------------1255644784-- ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 3 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: "tchannel" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:18:47 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4DBB.8E711840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a = differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could = you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the = amp just use easy to find op amps? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, = kevin.mckee@....... writes: There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly = or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause = for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in = some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether = the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line = even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter = than other light sources.=20 Hi Kevin, You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are = much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output = by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both = more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. = Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able = to pick up microseisms all the time. You can build a very good detector using two large area Si = photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise = level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a = single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. = Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can = get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. = Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament.=20 Regards, Chris Chapman ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4DBB.8E711840 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Chris,  the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to = a=20 differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try.  = Could=20 you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch?   = Does the=20 amp just use easy to find op amps?
 
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Thursday, October 15, = 2009 4:13=20 PM
Subject: Re: Torsion = Seismometer in a=20 jar

In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, kevin.mckee@....... = writes:
There=20 seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be = very=20 noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for = noise. I=20 used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some = cases, locked=20 the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was = picking=20 up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the = amplifier=20 was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light = sources.=20
Hi Kevin,
 
    You seem to be experiencing apparatus = problems.=20 Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both = vary in=20 light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. = They=20 are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated = voltage=20 source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You = should be=20 able to pick up microseisms all the time.
    You can build a very good detector using = two=20 large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. = I get a=20 noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability = with a=20 single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated.=20 Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can = get very=20 fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, = you can=20 use a single glass or carbon filament.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
 
    
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4DBB.8E711840-- ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 4 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:49:17 EDT -------------------------------1255657757 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/10/2009, tchannel@............ writes: Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the amp just use easy to find op amps? Thanks, Ted Hi Ted, Check out the notes and the circuit at _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html_ (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html) This circuit works fine. You need the INA118 or similar to get the very high CMRR common mode rejection ratio. You may need to alter filter values to suit your application. The photocells drive current into the opamps, so they run at 0V and there is no leakage current. I usually use a miniature filament bulb driven from a stabilised voltage and a lens to give a ~parallel light beam. You can use an IR LED if you provide an auxiliary Si photodiode and a feedback amplifier to stabilise the photo output. Otherwise it drifts all over the place. I use two small razor blades for the sides of the shutter, painted matt black, but with clean edges. They move just clear of the surface of the photocells. I measured the noise level at about 14 nano metres. There is inevitably some heat associated with the bulb. I suggest placing the bulb in a separate housing on top of the sensor. You under run the bulb voltage supply to give ~infinite life. Regards, Chris Chapman -------------------------------1255657757 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 16/10/2009, tchannel@............ writes:
Hi Chris,  the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to= a=20 differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. = Could=20 you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch?  = Does=20 the amp just use easy to find op amps?
 
Thanks, Ted
Hi Ted,
 
    Check out the notes and the circuit at  = htt= p://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html
    This circuit works fine. You need the INA118= or=20 similar to get the very high CMRR common mode rejection ratio. You may nee= d to=20 alter filter values to suit your application. The photocells drive current= into=20 the opamps, so they run at 0V and there is no leakage current. I usually= use=20 a miniature filament bulb driven from a stabilised voltage and a lens= to=20 give a ~parallel light beam. You can use an IR LED if you provide an auxil= iary=20 Si photodiode and a feedback amplifier to stabilise the photo output. Othe= rwise=20 it drifts all over the place. I use two small razor blades for the sides= of the=20 shutter, painted matt black, but with clean edges. They move just clear of= the=20 surface of the photocells.  I measured the noise level at about 14 na= no=20 metres. There is inevitably some heat associated with the bulb. I suggest= =20 placing the bulb in a separate housing on top of the sensor. You under run= the=20 bulb voltage supply to give ~infinite life.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
-------------------------------1255657757-- ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 5 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: "Geoffrey" Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:07:15 -0700 If you used a current source to keep a steady 10ma or 20 ma to the LED would that not be adequate stability for the light output also ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the amp just use easy to find op amps? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:13 PM Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, kevin.mckee@....... writes: There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. Hi Kevin, You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able to pick up microseisms all the time. You can build a very good detector using two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament. Regards, Chris Chapman ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 6 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:12:32 EDT -------------------------------1255659152 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 16/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes: If you used a current source to keep a steady 10ma or 20 ma to the LED would that not be adequate stability for the light output also ? Hi Geoff, No chance. The photo output at a constant current depends on the junction temperature. Regards, Chris Chapman -------------------------------1255659152 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In a message dated 16/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes:
If you=20 used a current source to keep a steady
10ma or 20 ma to the LED would= that=20 not be
adequate stability for the light output also=20 ?
Hi Geoff,
 
    No chance. The photo output at a constant cur= rent=20 depends on the junction temperature.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
-------------------------------1255659152-- ..------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. | Message 7 | '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:04:54 +0000 Hi, Is is possible to edit this design so it doesn't use glass jar and other weak material ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2009-10-15 at 16:27 -0400, kevin.mckee@....... wrote: > Hi - > I just joined this e-mail list, and noticed some of the discussion about = the seismometer project I posted at http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com= /home >=20 > There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or b= e very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for nois= e. I performed a number of tests before I completed the seismometer (severa= l years ago now) to satisfy my own concerns in that regard. I used various = incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulu= m in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise = from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed = out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources.=20 >=20 > I've actually found the two devices that I've built (facing orthogonally)= to be very sensitive. I've put together a rough distance-magnitude thresh= old detection plot that I can forward to anyone who is interested. The weak= est quake I've detected is a magnitude 2.0, about 0.05 degrees (about 3 mil= es) away. The common phases are easily picked out of the signal, depending= on the quake origin.=20 >=20 > The larger factor in the devices' sensitivity is that I mounted them on a= basement slab under the stairs to my front porch, which means that they d= etects the comings and goings of my family too (I sometimes used this fact = to check up on my daughters' returns from dates). >=20 > I believe that I am detecting microseismic background with the instrument= too, rather than air currents.=20 >=20 > Regarding the fact that the sensor is a displacement sensor vice a veloci= ty sensor--I don't see that as a problem. As with a capacitive /radio frequ= ency force-balance sensor, electronic filters and amplifiers can be used to= translate the signal into a velocity response, if that is what is desired.= In fact using the appropriate filter amplifier combination gets around any= concerns like those expressed about the resolution of the optical sensing = devices--electronic integration works very well for that. >=20 >=20 > Kevin McKee, Burke, VA > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-DIGEST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Digest from 10/15/2009 00:01:59 From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:16:42 -0600 Kevin, I very much like your sensor in a jar. Even the most excepted standards and designs at one time were unique. I try everything I can think of, but must admit I never tried one in a jar. I have used very long vertical spring which understandably would have great thermo expansion issues, but I have not seen any problem using them successfully. I place my sensors in a living area, garage or basement and the temperature is more or less constant. I ran a test in a 55 degree room, using a heater, warmed the room to 75 but could see no effect on the trace. I know the 48" long vertical spring was expanding, but it did not change anything I could see. My normal room temp. changes very little. On the other hand I have seen massive noise with air currents. I too keep these to a minimum. Anyhow, well done on your jar, I want to build one if I can find the time. This hobby, for me, is exciting because of the constant innovations. The fact is, many of these ideas, will not work, some will, but not well, and some will work just fine. Its always fun to see new approaches. Thanks, for sharing, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 3:21 AM Subject: Re: Digest from 10/15/2009 00:01:59 > Perhaps one or both of my postings weren't clear. > > The devices rest on a basement slab in a conditioned space. They are > enclosed by a thick Styrofoam box which significantly reduces air > currents. These two factors reduce the temperature variation of the > instruments, although I don't doubt there could be a couple of degrees > variation over the course of long periods relative to the period of the > damped pendulum/filter combinations. Because that temperature varies over > relatively long times, however, I judge that it is trivial after > considering that the ac-coupled integrator suppresses signals longer than > about 20 seconds. > > Also, the instruments use glass fibers for the torsion fiber and glass > jars for the structural supports in part to reduce the effects of thermal > contraction and expansion. Glass has a significantly lower thermal > expansion coefficient than any of the metal pendulums used for the Lehman > instruments of which I am aware, for example. Moreover, the dimension of > the expansion is orthogonal to the directional sensitivity of the > instrument; I hoped that this would further reduce sensitivity to thermal > variation. > > I recognize that this instrument is not a lab quality instrument, but for > something that can be built so cheaply and easily by anyone without a lot > of technical or machining skills it's a very useful device. I've detected > at least 120 earthquakes from all over the world with it. > > Why discourage folks out there who don't have the skills or $ to build a > Porsche when a Ford will get the job done, while spreading the fun of > doing science? > > Kevin McKee, burke, VA > > ---- psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: > > ============= > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:27:19 -0400 > > Hi - > I just joined this e-mail list, and noticed some of the discussion about > the seismometer project I posted at > http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com/home > > There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be > very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for > noise. I performed a number of tests before I completed the seismometer > (several years ago now) to satisfy my own concerns in that regard. I used > various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked > the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was > picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the > amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other > light sources. > > I've actually found the two devices that I've built (facing orthogonally) > to be very sensitive. I've put together a rough distance-magnitude > threshold detection plot that I can forward to anyone who is interested. > The weakest quake I've detected is a magnitude 2.0, about 0.05 degrees > (about 3 miles) away. The common phases are easily picked out of the > signal, depending on the quake origin. > > The larger factor in the devices' sensitivity is that I mounted them on a > basement slab under the stairs to my front porch, which means that they > detects the comings and goings of my family too (I sometimes used this > fact to check up on my daughters' returns from dates). > > I believe that I am detecting microseismic background with the instrument > too, rather than air currents. > > Regarding the fact that the sensor is a displacement sensor vice a > velocity sensor--I don't see that as a problem. As with a capacitive > /radio frequency force-balance sensor, electronic filters and amplifiers > can be used to translate the signal into a velocity response, if that is > what is desired. In fact using the appropriate filter amplifier > combination gets around any concerns like those expressed about the > resolution of the optical sensing devices--electronic integration works > very well for that. > > > Kevin McKee, Burke, VA > > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 2 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: ChrisAtUpw@....... > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:13:04 EDT > > > -------------------------------1255644784 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, > kevin.mckee@....... writes: > > There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or > be > very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for > noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some > cases, > locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor > was > picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the > amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other > light > sources. > > > > Hi Kevin, > > You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are much > more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output by > about > x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both more noisy > than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. Your flat > line > response was probably due to low gain. You should be able to pick up > microseisms all the time. > You can build a very good detector using two large area Si photocells > BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise level of about > 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a single detector > or > with a LED which is not temperature compensated. Phototransistors are > extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine Nichrome > wire > which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single glass > or > carbon filament. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > > > -------------------------------1255644784 > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > id=3Dr= > ole_body=20 > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7> id=3Dr= > ole_document=20 > color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> >
>
In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time,=20 > kevin.mckee@....... writes:
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: > 5px"= >> style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3D= > Arial>There=20 > seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be ver= > y=20 > noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for noise.= > I used=20 > various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked= > the=20 > pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking= > up=20 > noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier= > was=20 > maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources.= > =20 >
>
>
Hi Kevin,
>
 
>
    You seem to be experiencing apparatus > problem= > s.=20 > Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary= > in=20 > light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. > The= > y are=20 > both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage > sourc= > e.=20 > Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able= > to pick=20 > up microseisms all the time.
>
    You can build a very good detector using two= > large=20 > area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a > no= > ise=20 > level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a > sin= > gle=20 > detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. > Phototransist= > ors=20 > are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can get very fine > Nichrom= > e wire=20 > which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single > gl= > ass or=20 > carbon filament.
>
 
>
    Regards,
>
 
>
    Chris Chapman
>
 
>
    
> > -------------------------------1255644784-- > > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 3 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: "tchannel" > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:18:47 -0600 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4DBB.8E711840 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a = > differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could = > you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the = > amp just use easy to find op amps? > > Thanks, Ted > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... > To: psn-l@................. > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > > > In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, = > kevin.mckee@....... writes: > There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly = > or be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause = > for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in = > some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether = > the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line = > even when the amplifier was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter = > than other light sources.=20 > > Hi Kevin, > > You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are = > much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in light output = > by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. They are both = > more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated voltage source. = > Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You should be able = > to pick up microseisms all the time. > You can build a very good detector using two large area Si = > photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a noise = > level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with a = > single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated. = > Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can = > get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. = > Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament.=20 > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4DBB.8E711840 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > http-equiv=3DContent-Type> > > > > id=3Drole_body=20 > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 = > bgColor=3D#ffffff> >
Hi Chris,  the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to = > a=20 > differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try.  = > Could=20 > you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch?   = > Does the=20 > amp just use easy to find op amps?
>
 
>
Thanks, Ted
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; = > PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20 > dir=3Dltr> >
----- Original Message -----
> style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: = > black">From:=20 > href=3D"mailto:ChrisAtUpw@.......">ChrisAtUpw@....... > >
Sent: Thursday, October 15, = > 2009 4:13=20 > PM
>
Subject: Re: Torsion = > Seismometer in a=20 > jar
>

face=3DArial> >
>
In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, href=3D"mailto:kevin.mckee@.......">kevin.mckee@....... = > writes:
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: = > 5px"> style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 = > face=3DArial>There=20 > seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or be = > very=20 > noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for = > noise. I=20 > used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some = > cases, locked=20 > the pendulum in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was = > picking=20 > up noise from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the = > amplifier=20 > was maxed out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light = > sources.=20 >
>
>
Hi Kevin,
>
 
>
    You seem to be experiencing apparatus = > problems.=20 > Ordinary LEDs are much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both = > vary in=20 > light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. = > They=20 > are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a regulated = > voltage=20 > source. Your flat line response was probably due to low gain. You = > should be=20 > able to pick up microseisms all the time.
>
    You can build a very good detector using = > two=20 > large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. = > I get a=20 > noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability = > with a=20 > single detector or with a LED which is not temperature compensated.=20 > Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. You can = > get very=20 > fine Nichrome wire which makes a good suspension. Alternatively, = > you can=20 > use a single glass or carbon filament.
>
 
>
    Regards,
>
 
>
    Chris Chapman
>
 
>
    
> > ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CA4DBB.8E711840-- > > > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 4 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: ChrisAtUpw@....... > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:49:17 EDT > > > -------------------------------1255657757 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > In a message dated 16/10/2009, tchannel@............ writes: > > Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a > differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. Could > you help me > with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does the amp just use > easy to find op amps? > > Thanks, Ted > > > > Hi Ted, > > Check out the notes and the circuit at > _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html_ > (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html) > This circuit works fine. You need the INA118 or similar to get the > very high CMRR common mode rejection ratio. You may need to alter filter > values to suit your application. The photocells drive current into the > opamps, > so they run at 0V and there is no leakage current. I usually use a > miniature > filament bulb driven from a stabilised voltage and a lens to give a > ~parallel light beam. You can use an IR LED if you provide an auxiliary > Si > photodiode and a feedback amplifier to stabilise the photo output. > Otherwise it > drifts all over the place. I use two small razor blades for the sides of > the > shutter, painted matt black, but with clean edges. They move just clear of > the surface of the photocells. I measured the noise level at about 14 > nano > metres. There is inevitably some heat associated with the bulb. I suggest > placing the bulb in a separate housing on top of the sensor. You under run > the bulb voltage supply to give ~infinite life. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > -------------------------------1255657757 > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > id=3Dr= > ole_body=20 > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7> id=3Dr= > ole_document=20 > color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> >
>
In a message dated 16/10/2009, tchannel@............ writes:
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: > 5px"= >> style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3D= > Arial> >
Hi Chris,  the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to= > a=20 > differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. = > Could=20 > you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch?  = > Does=20 > the amp just use easy to find op amps?
>
 
>
Thanks, Ted
>
>
Hi Ted,
>
 
>
    Check out the notes and the circuit at >  = > href=3D"http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html">htt= > p://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/photo_detect/index.html
>
    This circuit works fine. You need the INA118= > or=20 > similar to get the very high CMRR common mode rejection ratio. You may > nee= > d to=20 > alter filter values to suit your application. The photocells drive > current= > into=20 > the opamps, so they run at 0V and there is no leakage current. I usually= > use=20 > a miniature filament bulb driven from a stabilised voltage and a > lens= > to=20 > give a ~parallel light beam. You can use an IR LED if you provide an > auxil= > iary=20 > Si photodiode and a feedback amplifier to stabilise the photo output. > Othe= > rwise=20 > it drifts all over the place. I use two small razor blades for the sides= > of the=20 > shutter, painted matt black, but with clean edges. They move just clear > of= > the=20 > surface of the photocells.  I measured the noise level at about 14 > na= > no=20 > metres. There is inevitably some heat associated with the bulb. I suggest= > =20 > placing the bulb in a separate housing on top of the sensor. You under > run= > the=20 > bulb voltage supply to give ~infinite life.
>
 
>
    Regards,
>
 
>
    Chris Chapman
> > -------------------------------1255657757-- > > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 5 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: "Geoffrey" > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:07:15 -0700 > > If you used a current source to keep a steady > 10ma or 20 ma to the LED would that not be > adequate stability for the light output also ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tchannel" > To: > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:18 PM > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > > > Hi Chris, the two large area Si photocells BPW34 connected to a > differential amplifier, sound like something I would like to try. > Could you help me with a simple schematic of this, even a sketch? Does > the amp just use easy to find op amps? > > Thanks, Ted > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ChrisAtUpw@....... > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > > > In a message dated 15/10/2009 21:27:46 GMT Daylight Time, > kevin.mckee@....... writes: > There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or > be very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED > being a cause for noise. I used various incandescent bulbs, LEDs and > sensors, and in some cases, locked the pendulum in a stationary > position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise from the LED. In > fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed > out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources. > > Hi Kevin, > > You seem to be experiencing apparatus problems. Ordinary LEDs are > much more noisy than superbright or IR LEDs. Both vary in > light output by about x5 between 0 and 100 C. The is a HUGE variation. > They are both more noisy than a filament bulb driven from a > regulated voltage source. Your flat line response was probably due to low > gain. You should be able to pick up microseisms all the > time. > You can build a very good detector using two large area Si photocells > BPW34 connected to a differential amplifier. I get a > noise level of about 14 nano metres. You can't get adequate stability with > a single detector or with a LED which is not temperature > compensated. Phototransistors are extremely noisy compared to photodiodes. > You can get very fine Nichrome wire which makes a good > suspension. Alternatively, you can use a single glass or carbon filament. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > > > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 6 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: ChrisAtUpw@....... > Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 22:12:32 EDT > > > -------------------------------1255659152 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > In a message dated 16/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > If you used a current source to keep a steady > 10ma or 20 ma to the LED would that not be > adequate stability for the light output also ? > > > > Hi Geoff, > > No chance. The photo output at a constant current depends on the > junction temperature. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > -------------------------------1255659152 > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > id=3Dr= > ole_body=20 > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7> id=3Dr= > ole_document=20 > color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> >
>
In a message dated 16/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes:
> style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: > 5px"= >> style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3D= > Arial>If you=20 > used a current source to keep a steady
10ma or 20 ma to the LED would= > that=20 > not be
adequate stability for the light output also=20 > ?
>
>
Hi Geoff,
>
 
>
    No chance. The photo output at a constant > cur= > rent=20 > depends on the junction temperature.
>
 
>
    Regards,
>
 
>
    Chris Chapman
> > -------------------------------1255659152-- > > > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 7 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Torsion Seismometer in a jar > From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= > Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:04:54 +0000 > > Hi, > > Is is possible to edit this design so it doesn't use glass jar and other > weak material ? > > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > On fim, 2009-10-15 at 16:27 -0400, kevin.mckee@....... wrote: >> Hi - >> I just joined this e-mail list, and noticed some of the discussion about >> = > the seismometer project I posted at > http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com= > /home >>=20 >> There seemed to be some concern that the system would perform poorly or >> b= > e very noisy. There was some discussion over the LED being a cause for > nois= > e. I performed a number of tests before I completed the seismometer > (severa= > l years ago now) to satisfy my own concerns in that regard. I used various > = > incandescent bulbs, LEDs and sensors, and in some cases, locked the > pendulu= > m in a stationary position to test whether the sensor was picking up noise > = > from the LED. In fact, I got a flat line even when the amplifier was maxed > = > out--the LED was significantly quieter than other light sources.=20 >>=20 >> I've actually found the two devices that I've built (facing >> orthogonally)= > to be very sensitive. I've put together a rough distance-magnitude > thresh= > old detection plot that I can forward to anyone who is interested. The > weak= > est quake I've detected is a magnitude 2.0, about 0.05 degrees (about 3 > mil= > es) away. The common phases are easily picked out of the signal, > depending= > on the quake origin.=20 >>=20 >> The larger factor in the devices' sensitivity is that I mounted them on >> a= > basement slab under the stairs to my front porch, which means that they > d= > etects the comings and goings of my family too (I sometimes used this fact > = > to check up on my daughters' returns from dates). >>=20 >> I believe that I am detecting microseismic background with the >> instrument= > too, rather than air currents.=20 >>=20 >> Regarding the fact that the sensor is a displacement sensor vice a >> veloci= > ty sensor--I don't see that as a problem. As with a capacitive /radio > frequ= > ency force-balance sensor, electronic filters and amplifiers can be used > to= > translate the signal into a velocity response, if that is what is > desired.= > In fact using the appropriate filter amplifier combination gets around > any= > concerns like those expressed about the resolution of the optical sensing > = > devices--electronic integration works very well for that. >>=20 >>=20 >> Kevin McKee, Burke, VA >> __________________________________________________________ >>=20 >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>=20 >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-DIGEST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Background Noise From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:02:14 -0700 After the big quakes in the South Pacific a couple weeks ago it seems to me that the background noise was very high after the events and stayed that way for many days. I had to lower the gain on my Lehman otherwise the display would be a mess. But now things are back to normal and low noise and I can crank up the gain again. There is always a chance that that the noise is from the ocean, but I don't think so. Did you noticed a jump in noise after the recent Big Ones. If so, is there any rule as to how long things take to cool off. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com Information on how to cope with the transition to DTV

After the big quakes in the South Pacific a couple = weeks ago it seems to me that the background noise was very high after the events = and stayed that way for many days. I had to lower the gain on my Lehman = otherwise the display would be a mess. But now things are back to normal and low = noise and I can crank up the gain again. There is always a chance that that = the noise is from the ocean, but I don’t think so. Did you noticed a jump in = noise after the recent Big Ones. If so, is there any rule as to how long = things take to cool off.

Gary

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com  = ;      Information on how to cope with the transition = to DTV

 

 

Subject: Re: Background Noise From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:26:05 -0600 Gary, Don't know your circumstances, but I have a Lehman and know it is = sensitive to weather fronts. It will be normal, showing some day/night = time noise differences then when a cold front come through the noise = level gets very high, and in my case it only the weather. I have ruled = out temperature changes, sunny days, rainy days, even wind does not = produce the noise level of a weather front. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary Lindgren=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 9:02 PM Subject: Background Noise After the big quakes in the South Pacific a couple weeks ago it seems = to me that the background noise was very high after the events and = stayed that way for many days. I had to lower the gain on my Lehman = otherwise the display would be a mess. But now things are back to normal = and low noise and I can crank up the gain again. There is always a = chance that that the noise is from the ocean, but I don't think so. Did = you noticed a jump in noise after the recent Big Ones. If so, is there = any rule as to how long things take to cool off. Gary =20 =20 =20 =20 Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 =20 650-326-0655 =20 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com=20 dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com Information on how to cope with = the transition to DTV=20 =20 =20
Gary, Don't know your circumstances, = but I have a=20 Lehman and know it is sensitive to weather fronts.   It will = be=20 normal, showing some day/night time noise differences then when a = cold=20 front come through the noise level gets very high, and in my case it = only the=20 weather.   I have ruled out temperature changes, sunny days, = rainy=20 days, even wind does not produce the noise level of a weather=20 front.
 
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary=20 Lindgren
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 = 9:02=20 PM
Subject: Background Noise

After the big quakes in the South Pacific a = couple weeks=20 ago it seems to me that the background noise was very high after the = events=20 and stayed that way for many days. I had to lower the gain on my = Lehman=20 otherwise the display would be a mess. But now things are back to = normal and=20 low noise and I can crank up the gain again. There is always a chance = that=20 that the noise is from the ocean, but I don=92t think so. Did you = noticed a jump=20 in noise after the recent Big Ones. If so, is there any rule as to how = long=20 things take to cool off.

Gary

 

 

 

 

Gary=20 Lindgren

585=20 Lincoln Ave

Palo=20 Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com  =20 Check out Lastest Seismometer=20 Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com    &n= bsp;  =20 Information on how to cope with the = transition to=20 DTV

 

 

Subject: Re: Background Noise From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 07:25:11 EDT =20 In a message dated 17/10/2009, _gel@..................... (mailto:gel@.................. writes:=20 After the big quakes in the South Pacific a couple weeks ago it seems to= =20 me that the background noise was very high after the events and stayed th= at=20 way for many days. But now things are back to normal and low noise and I= =20 can crank up the gain again. There is always a chance that that the noise= is=20 from the ocean, but I don=E2=80=99t think so. Did you noticed a jump in= noise after=20 the recent Big Ones. If so, is there any rule as to how long things take= =20 to cool off. Hi Gary,=20 These are almost certainly deep ocean microseisms, but you also get highe= r=20 signals when a storm system crosses the coast and when a cold front passe= s=20 through. You see signals like this world wide. There is a centre south of= =20 Greenland and another east of Japan. Waves on the west coast are likely= to=20 show up. See wave heights at _http://www.oceanweather.com/data/index.html_=20 (http://www.oceanweather.com/data/index.html)=20 With two Lehmans, you can estimate the direction. The rise and fall is likely to be several days minimum, similar to storm= =20 systems.=20 =20 Regards, =20 Chris
In a message dated 17/10/2009, gel@................. writes:

    After the big quakes in the South Pacific= a=20 couple weeks ago it seems to me that the background noise was very high af= ter=20 the events and stayed that way for many days. But now things are back to= normal=20 and low noise and I can crank up the gain again. There is always a chance= that=20 that the noise is from the ocean, but I don=E2=80=99t think so. Did you no= ticed a jump=20 in noise after the recent Big Ones. If so, is there any rule as to how lon= g=20 things take to cool off.
Hi Gary,

    These are almost certainly deep ocean=20 microseisms, but you also get higher signals when a storm system crosses= the=20 coast and when a cold front passes through. You see signals like this worl= d=20 wide. There is a centre south of Greenland and another east of Japan. Wave= s on=20 the west coast are likely to show up.
    See wave heights at http://www.oceanweath= er.com/data/index.html
    With two Lehmans, you can estimate the=20 direction.

    The rise and fall is likely to be several= days=20 minimum, similar to storm systems.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris
 Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:14:02 -0600 Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe more.... If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected (?). "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. Meredith Lamb Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the c= omputer trojan "Downloader" virus on
the recently used link of= JCLAHR.COM.

My anti-virus program= wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe more....= =A0

If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer i= nfected (?).

"Downloader":=A0 This trojan horse is a progr= am that downloads another malicious program from a remote
internet site = and executes it on the local system.

Systems affected:=A0 Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, = Windows NT, Windows XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/= Symantec 360 for over a year and my recommendation is very high.
One can= do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin t= o do.

Meredith Lamb










=A0=A0=A0
=

Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:37:22 -0500 I too received this notice from Norton when accessing the site. However, I am not sure that notice is current or even accurate. It says that Norton "looked at" that site and found the problems. WHEN is my question. In fact, I sent them an email to them to re-check; that it was a very important source of information, but got no reply and the error notice still appears when I go there. Nevertheless, since then I have had my machine scanned numerous times since with no infections found; Norton and other scanners. I doubt the veracity of that notice, but do not know how to remedy. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer Trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe more.... If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected (?). "Downloader": This Trojan horse is a program that downloads another malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. Meredith Lamb
I too received this notice from Norton when = accessing the=20 site.  However, I am not sure that notice is current or even=20 accurate.  It says that Norton "looked at" that site and found the=20 problems.  WHEN is my question.  In fact, I sent them an email = to them=20 to re-check; that it was a very important source of information, but got = no=20 reply and the error notice still appears when I go there.
 
Nevertheless, since then I have had my machine = scanned=20 numerous times since with no infections found; Norton and other=20 scanners.
 
I doubt the veracity of that notice, but do not = know how=20 to remedy.
 
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 17, = 2009 12:14=20 PM
Subject: Warning: Computer = trojan horse=20 on JCLAHR.COM

Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects = 15=20 instances of the computer Trojan "Downloader" virus on
the recently = used=20 link of JCLAHR.COM.

My = anti-virus=20 program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe=20 more.... 

If you've been there recently you're quite = possibly,=20 computer infected (?).

"Downloader":  This Trojan horse is = a=20 program that downloads another malicious program from a = remote
internet=20 site and executes it on the local system.

Systems = affected: =20 Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows=20 XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for = over a=20 year and my recommendation is very high.
One can do things with = this=20 program; the "others" don't even begin to do.

Meredith=20 Lamb










   =20


Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 17:43:56 +0000 Hi, Google gives me a clean page, and up on viewing the web page I don't see anything that indicates a virus (I am running Gentoo Linux). Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2009-10-17 at 11:14 -0600, meredith lamb wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer > trojan "Downloader" virus on > the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. >=20 > My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page > link/s....their maybe more.... =20 >=20 > If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected > (?). >=20 > "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another > malicious program from a remote > internet site and executes it on the local system. >=20 > Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, > Windows NT, Windows XP >=20 > For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year > and my recommendation is very high. > One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to > do. >=20 > Meredith Lamb >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:27:32 -0500 Meredith, perhaps if we joined http://safeweb.norton.com/about we could all complain and have them check it again. It appears to be an automatic service from Norton, outside of the A/V installed on one's computer, and associated with the Norton Toolbar that automatically installs with your A/V installation. Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux machine or software. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe more.... If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected (?). "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. Meredith Lamb
Meredith, perhaps if we joined  http://safeweb.norton.com/about<= /A> =20 we could all complain and have them check it again. 
 
It appears to be an automatic = service from=20 Norton, outside of the A/V installed on one's computer, and associated = with the=20 Norton Toolbar that automatically installs with your = A/V=20 installation. 
 
Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux = machine or=20 software.
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 17, = 2009 12:14=20 PM
Subject: Warning: Computer = trojan horse=20 on JCLAHR.COM

Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects = 15=20 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on
the recently = used=20 link of JCLAHR.COM.

My = anti-virus=20 program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe=20 more.... 

If you've been there recently you're quite = possibly,=20 computer infected (?).

"Downloader":  This trojan horse is = a=20 program that downloads another malicious program from a = remote
internet=20 site and executes it on the local system.

Systems = affected: =20 Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows=20 XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for = over a=20 year and my recommendation is very high.
One can do things with = this=20 program; the "others" don't even begin to do.

Meredith=20 Lamb










   =20


Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 18:46:23 +0000 Hi, I found the issue on that webpage. There is a java injection code on the web pages, it does not show up clearly. It does not affect Linux and MacOS X. The hosting of the web page has been injected with the infection web code. This post is being CC to the site mainterers. More information here, http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Webmasters/thread?tid=3D363527b28d167= 514&hl=3Den This email is beging Cc to the site maintanier so this issue can be fixed. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2009-10-17 at 13:27 -0500, GPayton wrote: > Meredith, perhaps if we joined http://safeweb.norton.com/about we > could all complain and have them check it again. =20 > =20 > It appears to be an automatic service from Norton, outside of the A/V > installed on one's computer, and associated with the Norton Toolbar > that automatically installs with your A/V installation. =20 > =20 > Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux machine or software. > =20 > Jerry > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: meredith lamb=20 > To: psn-l@................. > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:14 PM > Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM > =20 > =20 > Hi all, > =20 > My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the > computer trojan "Downloader" virus on > the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. > =20 > My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page > link/s....their maybe more.... =20 > =20 > If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer > infected (?). > =20 > "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads > another malicious program from a remote > internet site and executes it on the local system. > =20 > Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, > Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows XP > =20 > For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over > a year and my recommendation is very high. > One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even > begin to do. > =20 > Meredith Lamb > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: rg richg_1998@......... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) I use Linux Mint 7. No problems here. Rich O.S. Linux Mint 7 No Gates or Windows __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:49:46 -0500 Meredith, A solution "may" be here: http://www.gotknowhow.com/articles/how-to-turn-off-norton-safe-web.aspx However, turning off the "enhanced search engine feature" might promote other undesirable exclusions. On the other hand, my Norton A/N catches problems and blocks them when on a website. ANY a/v program cannot be 100% as viruses are constantly added, bit it is the best we can do. I think you would loose the green check mark circles seen in a Google search also. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe more.... If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected (?). "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. Meredith Lamb
Meredith,
 
A solution "may" be here:  http://www.gotknowhow.com/articles/how-to-turn-off-norton-safe-we= b.aspx
 
However, turning off the "enhanced search engine = feature"=20 might promote other undesirable exclusions.  On the other hand, my = Norton=20 A/N catches problems and blocks them when on a website.  ANY a/v = program=20 cannot be 100% as viruses are constantly added, bit it is the best we = can=20 do.
 
I think you would loose the green check mark = circles seen=20 in a Google search also.
 
Jerry
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 17, = 2009 12:14=20 PM
Subject: Warning: Computer = trojan horse=20 on JCLAHR.COM

Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects = 15=20 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on
the recently = used=20 link of JCLAHR.COM.

My = anti-virus=20 program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe=20 more.... 

If you've been there recently you're quite = possibly,=20 computer infected (?).

"Downloader":  This trojan horse is = a=20 program that downloads another malicious program from a = remote
internet=20 site and executes it on the local system.

Systems = affected: =20 Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows=20 XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for = over a=20 year and my recommendation is very high.
One can do things with = this=20 program; the "others" don't even begin to do.

Meredith=20 Lamb










   =20


Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 12:56:39 -0700 Was this so called malware riding on a downloaded file or just how did it get into your machine ? I have never received bad files to my knowledge without having a virus be a part of executable code in something intentionally downloaded. Then it gets saved to the recovery files automatically forcing you to reset the recovery points to get rid of the bad messages ? I would recommend possibly immunizing your machine with spybot which loads a mess of bad sites into your normal browser blocking security thingy. Then you donate maybe $5 to them for being such nice folks. Sure beats all the moola they want every year for whatever scanners. But many times I wonder seriously if the anti virus peoples are hiring or encouraging other third parties to make viruses in some kind of collusional scheme to keep alive the scanner thingy I always thought was so ridiculous in the first place. If windows would remove all those hidden servers that run in the background as well as any interpreter programs there would be no worries unless you run the bad code yourself. SERVERS and Interpreters are the only kind of bad things I know a system may have that will allow others to control or destroy your machine. (Like Blasting the bios or wiping or corrupting) As for spyware the USA does not allow the private citizen the pleasure of keeping secrets, only that stupid thing called privacy which essentially protects you from nothing at all. Privacy means anyone can watch what they want and must turn their heads unless something is illegal. ----- Original Message ----- From: "meredith lamb" To: Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:14 AM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM > Hi all, > > My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer trojan > "Downloader" virus on > the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. > > My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their > maybe more.... > > If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected (?). > > "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another > malicious program from a remote > internet site and executes it on the local system. > > Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows > NT, Windows XP > > For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and my > recommendation is very high. > One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. > > Meredith Lamb > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 15:05:33 -0500 Hi Goeff. For clarification, nobody's machine is infected! The problem that Norton shows a warning window that John Clahr's website http://jclahr.com/ is infected. We believe it is NOT. It seems to be a problem with Norton's installation of their Toolbar and Norton Safe Web settings. Disabling the latter removes the popup and the site cause NO problems with normal a/v searches. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey" To: Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:56 PM Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM > Was this so called malware riding on a downloaded file > or just how did it get into your machine ? > > I have never received bad files to my knowledge > without having a virus be a part of > executable code in something intentionally > downloaded. > > Then it gets saved to the recovery files > automatically forcing you to reset the > recovery points to get rid of the bad messages ? > > I would recommend possibly immunizing your > machine with spybot which loads a mess > of bad sites into your normal browser > blocking security thingy. > > Then you donate maybe $5 to them for > being such nice folks. > > Sure beats all the moola they want every > year for whatever scanners. > > But many times I wonder seriously if the > anti virus peoples are hiring or encouraging > other third parties to make viruses in some > kind of collusional scheme to keep alive > the scanner thingy I always thought was > so ridiculous in the first place. > > > If windows would remove all those hidden servers > that run in the background as well as any interpreter > programs there would be no worries unless you run the bad > code yourself. > > SERVERS and Interpreters are the only kind of bad > things I know a system may have that will > allow others to control or destroy your machine. > (Like Blasting the bios or wiping or corrupting) > As for spyware the USA does not allow the private > citizen the pleasure of keeping secrets, only that > stupid thing called privacy which essentially > protects you from nothing at all. > Privacy means anyone can watch what they want > and must turn their heads unless something is illegal. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "meredith lamb" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:14 AM > Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM > > >> Hi all, >> >> My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer >> trojan >> "Downloader" virus on >> the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. >> >> My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page >> link/s....their >> maybe more.... >> >> If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected >> (?). >> >> "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another >> malicious program from a remote >> internet site and executes it on the local system. >> >> Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, >> Windows >> NT, Windows XP >> >> For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and >> my >> recommendation is very high. >> One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. >> >> Meredith Lamb >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:24:58 +0000 Hi, The web page is infected, there is no doubt about it. It is a java injection code. It is hard to detect it, but it is there. I did check for it manually. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2009-10-17 at 15:05 -0500, GPayton wrote: > Hi Goeff. >=20 > For clarification, nobody's machine is infected! The problem that Norton= =20 > shows a warning window that John Clahr's website http://jclahr.com/ is= =20 > infected. We believe it is NOT. It seems to be a problem with Norton's=20 > installation of their Toolbar and Norton Safe Web settings. Disabling th= e=20 > latter removes the popup and the site cause NO problems with normal a/v=20 > searches. >=20 > Regards, > Jerry >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Geoffrey" > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 2:56 PM > Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM >=20 >=20 > > Was this so called malware riding on a downloaded file > > or just how did it get into your machine ? > > > > I have never received bad files to my knowledge > > without having a virus be a part of > > executable code in something intentionally > > downloaded. > > > > Then it gets saved to the recovery files > > automatically forcing you to reset the > > recovery points to get rid of the bad messages ? > > > > I would recommend possibly immunizing your > > machine with spybot which loads a mess > > of bad sites into your normal browser > > blocking security thingy. > > > > Then you donate maybe $5 to them for > > being such nice folks. > > > > Sure beats all the moola they want every > > year for whatever scanners. > > > > But many times I wonder seriously if the > > anti virus peoples are hiring or encouraging > > other third parties to make viruses in some > > kind of collusional scheme to keep alive > > the scanner thingy I always thought was > > so ridiculous in the first place. > > > > > > If windows would remove all those hidden servers > > that run in the background as well as any interpreter > > programs there would be no worries unless you run the bad > > code yourself. > > > > SERVERS and Interpreters are the only kind of bad > > things I know a system may have that will > > allow others to control or destroy your machine. > > (Like Blasting the bios or wiping or corrupting) > > As for spyware the USA does not allow the private > > citizen the pleasure of keeping secrets, only that > > stupid thing called privacy which essentially > > protects you from nothing at all. > > Privacy means anyone can watch what they want > > and must turn their heads unless something is illegal. > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "meredith lamb" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:14 AM > > Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM > > > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer=20 > >> trojan > >> "Downloader" virus on > >> the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. > >> > >> My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page=20 > >> link/s....their > >> maybe more.... > >> > >> If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected= =20 > >> (?). > >> > >> "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another > >> malicious program from a remote > >> internet site and executes it on the local system. > >> > >> Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me,=20 > >> Windows > >> NT, Windows XP > >> > >> For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year = and=20 > >> my > >> recommendation is very high. > >> One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to = do. > >> > >> Meredith Lamb > >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the=20 > > message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 18:32:49 -0700 Folks, I am still in the process of removing the computer virus from John = Lahr's website. I am at a conference in Portland, OR, right now but = will be back on Monday evening to finish up. Thanks for your patience. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: meredith lamb=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 10:14 AM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer = trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page = link/s....their maybe more.... =20 If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected = (?). "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another = malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, = Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year = and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to = do. Meredith Lamb =20
Folks,
I am still in the process of removing the = computer virus=20 from John Lahr's website.  I am at a conference in Portland, OR, = right now=20 but will be back on Monday evening to finish up.  Thanks for your=20 patience.
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 17, = 2009 10:14=20 AM
Subject: Warning: Computer = trojan horse=20 on JCLAHR.COM

Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects = 15=20 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on
the recently = used=20 link of JCLAHR.COM.

My = anti-virus=20 program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe=20 more.... 

If you've been there recently you're quite = possibly,=20 computer infected (?).

"Downloader":  This trojan horse is = a=20 program that downloads another malicious program from a = remote
internet=20 site and executes it on the local system.

Systems = affected: =20 Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows=20 XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for = over a=20 year and my recommendation is very high.
One can do things with = this=20 program; the "others" don't even begin to do.

Meredith=20 Lamb










   =20


Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 18:36:26 -0700 Just a little more information. John hosted his website with iPower.com = and awhile back a Trojan got into several of their servers. It = basically ate into all the index.htm or index.html files. I am = systematically fixing the hundreds of files and am almost done. Please = be patient. John's website is so important to all of us and I don't = want folks to not use it. I'll keep you posted on my progress next = week. Thanks! Kay ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Meredith, perhaps if we joined http://safeweb.norton.com/about we = could all complain and have them check it again. =20 It appears to be an automatic service from Norton, outside of the A/V = installed on one's computer, and associated with the Norton Toolbar that = automatically installs with your A/V installation. =20 Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux machine or software. Jerry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: meredith lamb=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer = trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page = link/s....their maybe more.... =20 If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer = infected (?). "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another = malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, = Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a = year and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin = to do. Meredith Lamb =20
Just a little more information.  John = hosted his=20 website with iPower.com and awhile back a Trojan got into several of = their=20 servers.  It basically ate into all the index.htm or index.html=20 files.  I am systematically fixing the hundreds of files and am = almost=20 done.  Please be patient.  John's website is so important to = all of us=20 and I don't want folks to not use it.  I'll keep you posted on my = progress=20 next week.
Thanks!
Kay
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Saturday, October 17, = 2009 11:27=20 AM
Subject: Re: Warning: Computer = trojan=20 horse on JCLAHR.COM

Meredith, perhaps if we joined  http://safeweb.norton.com/about<= /A> =20 we could all complain and have them check it again.  =
 
It appears to be an automatic = service from=20 Norton, outside of the A/V installed on one's computer, and associated = with=20 the Norton Toolbar that automatically installs with = your A/V=20 installation. 
 
Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux = machine or=20 software.
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 17, = 2009 12:14=20 PM
Subject: Warning: Computer = trojan horse=20 on JCLAHR.COM

Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects = 15=20 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on
the = recently used=20 link of JCLAHR.COM.

My = anti-virus=20 program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe=20 more.... 

If you've been there recently you're quite = possibly,=20 computer infected (?).

"Downloader":  This trojan horse = is a=20 program that downloads another malicious program from a = remote
internet=20 site and executes it on the local system.

Systems = affected: =20 Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, = Windows=20 XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for = over a=20 year and my recommendation is very high.
One can do things with = this=20 program; the "others" don't even begin to do.

Meredith=20 Lamb










   =20


Subject: RE: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM From: "Kareem" system98765@............. Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:12:51 -0700 I used iPower years ago but decided to switch. From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:36 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Just a little more information. John hosted his website with iPower.com and awhile back a Trojan got into several of their servers. It basically ate into all the index.htm or index.html files. I am systematically fixing the hundreds of files and am almost done. Please be patient. John's website is so important to all of us and I don't want folks to not use it. I'll keep you posted on my progress next week. Thanks! Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 11:27 AM Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Meredith, perhaps if we joined http://safeweb.norton.com/about we could all complain and have them check it again. It appears to be an automatic service from Norton, outside of the A/V installed on one's computer, and associated with the Norton Toolbar that automatically installs with your A/V installation. Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux machine or software. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 12:14 PM Subject: Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM Hi all, My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer trojan "Downloader" virus on the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM. My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page link/s....their maybe more.... If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected (?). "Downloader": This trojan horse is a program that downloads another malicious program from a remote internet site and executes it on the local system. Systems affected: Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows Me, Windows NT, Windows XP For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year and my recommendation is very high. One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even begin to do. Meredith Lamb

I used iPower years ago but decided to = switch.

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:36 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Warning: Computer trojan horse on = JCLAHR.COM

 

Just a little more information.  John hosted his website with iPower.com and = awhile back a Trojan got into several of their servers.  It basically ate into = all the index.htm or index.html files.  I am systematically fixing the = hundreds of files and am almost done.  Please be patient.  John's website = is so important to all of us and I don't want folks to not use it.  I'll = keep you posted on my progress next week.

Thanks!

Kay

 

----- Original Message -----

From: GPayton

Sent:<= /b> Saturday, = October 17, 2009 11:27 AM

Subject: Re: = Warning: Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM

 

 

It appears to be an automatic service from Norton, outside of the A/V = installed on one's computer, and associated with the Norton Toolbar that automatically installs with your A/V installation. 

 

Jon, I do not think it would affect a Linux machine or software.

 

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

Sent:<= /b> Saturday, = October 17, 2009 12:14 PM

Subject: Warning: = Computer trojan horse on JCLAHR.COM

 

Hi all,

My Norton/Symantec 360 program detects 15 instances of the computer = trojan "Downloader" virus on
the recently used link of JCLAHR.COM.

My anti-virus program wouldn't even let me view the 15 page = link/s....their maybe more.... 

If you've been there recently you're quite possibly, computer infected = (?).

"Downloader":  This trojan horse is a program that = downloads another malicious program from a remote
internet site and executes it on the local system.

Systems affected:  Windows 2000, Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows = Me, Windows NT, Windows XP

For whatever its worth, I've used Norton/Symantec 360 for over a year = and my recommendation is very high.
One can do things with this program; the "others" don't even = begin to do.

Meredith Lamb










   

Subject: Re: Digest from 10/15/2009 00:01:59 From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:51:20 EDT _http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com/home_ (http://tinkeringcaveman.googlepages.com/home) In a message dated 16/10/2009, kevin.mckee@....... writes: >> Perhaps one or both of my postings weren't clear. Hi Kevin, You say: >> "Do your homework! A lot of folks out there have already done this, save yourself time, effort, and money by doing some research." Them why have you chosen to use a photo transistor detector? This has over a hundred times the noise of a photo diode detector and it seriously limits the performance. You say: >> "Be Patient! Patience is a necessary virtue for a seismologist. It turns out that in my location near Washington D.C., there is limited seismicity; I sometimes go for a month at a time without detecting distant quakes." I also live in a quiet seismic area, but it is a QUIET WEEK when I don't see TWO QUAKES. Call up the drumplot of a local professional station to check what quakes you should see? >> Because that temperature varies over relatively long times, however, I judge that it is trivial after considering that the ac-coupled integrator suppresses signals longer than about 20 seconds. You can see convective thermal fluctuations with periods from just a few seconds upwards. >> Also, the instruments use glass fibers for the torsion fiber. You need to use a single fibre or wire suspension. If you use a bundle of fibres there will be frictional effects in the suspension which allow the zero position to wander from quake to quake. >> I recognize that this instrument is not a lab quality instrument, but for something that can be built so cheaply and easily by anyone without a lot of technical or machining skills it's a very useful device. I've detected at least 120 earthquakes from all over the world with it. >> Why discourage folks out there who don't have the skills or $ to build a Porsche when a Ford will get the job done, while spreading the fun of doing science? Maybe because your 'design' does not seem to be even in the model T Ford class? The design seems to be mostly built inside a jar. This increases the construction difficulty and is not neccessary. It would be a lot easier to construct the mechanism on two or three disks connected by three lengths of threaded rod. The completed and adjusted mechanism could then be slid inside the glass jar. How is the period set up, measured and adjusted? How is the damping measured and adjusted to ~0.7 critical? Note that coins are a copper alloy, have a much higher electrical resistance than pure copper and don't make such efficient dampers. I have no interest in trying to make a low specification device. And I don't fancy the hassle of "The initial set-up may take several hours, and then you need to monitor or record the output for days or weeks to determine if you are getting adequate results." Amateur seismologists try to detect the same quakes as the professionals and require similar low noise high performance systems. If a seismic system does not work down to below the local seismic background noise, it is a waste of time, effort and money. This looks like it was based on a Wood Anderson 0.8 second period seismometer _ http://www.data.scec.org/Module/s3inset3.html_ (http://www.data.scec.org/Module/s3inset3.html) _ http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/Instruments/torsion_seis.html_ (http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/Instruments/torsion_seis.html) Regards, Chris Chapman
http://tinkeringcave= man.googlepages.com/home
In a message dated 16/10/2009, kevin.mckee@....... writes:
>>    Perhaps one or both of my= postings=20 weren't clear.
Hi Kevin,
 
    You say:
>> "Do your homework! A lot of folks out there have alread= y done=20 this, save yourself time, effort, and money by doing some research."
 
    Them why have you chosen to use a photo= =20 transistor detector? This has over a hundred times the noise of a photo di= ode=20 detector and it seriously limits the performance.
 
 You say:
>>  "Be Patient! Patience is a necessary virtue for= a=20 seismologist. It turns out that in my location near Washington D.C., there= is=20 limited seismicity; I sometimes go for a month at a time without detecting= =20 distant quakes."
 
    I also live in a quiet seismic area, but= it is=20 a QUIET WEEK when I don't see TWO QUAKES. Call up the drumplot of a=20 local professional station to check what quakes you should see? =
 
>>    Because that temperature vari= es over=20 relatively long times, however, I judge that it is trivial after consideri= ng=20 that the ac-coupled integrator suppresses signals longer than about 20=20 seconds.
 
    You can see convective thermal= =20 fluctuations with periods from just a few seconds=20 upwards. 

>>    Also, the instrument= s use=20 glass fibers for the torsion fiber.
 
    You need to use a single fibre or wir= e=20 suspension. If you use a bundle of fibres there will be frictional effects= in=20 the suspension which allow the zero position to wander from quake to=20 quake.

>>    I recognize that this instrument= is not=20 a lab quality instrument, but for something that can be built so cheaply= and=20 easily by anyone without a lot of technical or machining skills it's a ver= y=20 useful device. I've detected at least 120 earthquakes from all over the wo= rld=20 with it.

>>    Why discourage folks out= there=20 who don't have the skills or $ to build a Porsche when a Ford will get the= job=20 done, while spreading the fun of doing science?

 
    Maybe because your 'design' does not seem=20 to be even in the model T Ford class?
    
    The design seems to be mostly built inside a= jar.=20 This increases the construction difficulty and is not neccessary. It would= be a=20 lot easier to construct the mechanism on two or three disks connected by= three=20 lengths of threaded rod. The completed and adjusted mechanism co= uld=20 then be slid inside the glass jar. 
    How is the period set up, measured=20 and adjusted? How is the damping measured and adjusted to ~0.7=20 critical? Note that coins are a copper alloy, have a much higher elec= trical=20 resistance than pure copper and don't make such efficient dampers.
 
    I have no interest in trying to make a low=20 specification device. And I don't fancy the hassle of "The initi= al=20 set-up may take several hours, and then you need to monitor or record the= output=20 for days or weeks to determine if you are getting adequate results."
 
    Amateur seismologists try to detect the same= quakes=20 as the professionals and require similar low noise high performance system= s. If=20 a seismic system does not work down to below the local seismic background= noise,=20 it is a waste of time, effort and money.
 
    This looks like it was based on a Wood= =20 Anderson 0.8 second period seismometer     &= nbsp;http://www.data.scec.org/Module/s3inset3.html 
    http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/Ins= truments/torsion_seis.html
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Instrument quality From: "Randy Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:43:43 -0500 Chris, There are also many battles out here that need fighting in addition to = getting the last nanometer resolution from a homebrew seismometer. For = the past nine years I have been involved with a regional science fair = and have not seen a single seismometer project. The closest I have seen = was using a vibration device to measure the ride of an automobile. I = had one highschool teacher who let me operate my Lehman from her = classroom for a couple weeks each year but now she is gone and there is = zero interest in seismology in the area. From where I sit there will = not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of resolution. = Anyone providing a spark of imagination and an avenue of entry for = interested young minds is making a great contribution to seismology or = more broadly science. Earth science is falling out of classroom time in = favor or green and alternative energy. What will give a student more = pride and motivation, connecting a professional device with no = understanding of it or constructing a caveman device and recording a = distant quake? We are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and = energy. Randy
Chris,
 
There are also many battles out = here that need=20 fighting in addition to getting the last nanometer resolution = from a=20 homebrew seismometer.  For the past nine years  I have = been=20 involved with a regional science fair and have not seen a single = seismometer=20 project.  The closest I have seen was using a vibration device to = measure=20 the ride of an automobile.  I had one highschool teacher who let me = operate=20 my Lehman from her classroom for a couple weeks each year but now = she is=20 gone and there is zero interest in seismology in the area.  From = where I=20 sit there will not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of=20 resolution.  Anyone providing a spark of imagination and an avenue = of entry=20 for interested young minds is making a great contribution to seismology = or more=20 broadly science.  Earth science is falling out of classroom time in = favor=20 or green and alternative energy.  What will give a student more = pride and=20 motivation,  connecting a professional device with no understanding = of=20 it or constructing a caveman device and recording a distant = quake?  We=20 are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and = energy.
 
Randy
Subject: Re: Instrument quality From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:03:00 -0700 The area of seismology has a lot of stupid patented stuff that discourages playing around with instrumentation. If you accidentally build a patented device and I mean even one not used by anyone you can not market or mass produce it or anything like that unless the existing patent has expired or so I understand. Or this stupid patent stuff will be the source of a serious law suit. All I know is for the amateur there's nothing better than a simple common machine called a pendulum with a magnet and a coil or solenoid coil a simple common op amp circuit with commercial A/D of some kind ( Guess Larry's already got all that so no one really needs to build it them self) But you should with fair amount of ease be able to detect a 4.0 quake at 6 great circle degrees distance. Just make sure it is >= 1 second period and amplify down to the noise level of +/- two or three counts + and - with the sensor attached on a Sunday night or Monday morning before 4 AM. For me a typical DC gain of X10,000 at one hertz. This is all typical which is not exact and precise like scientist fellows prefer. But then we are amateurs and only do this for fun. Were not trying to hear our neighbors next door through the ground like those CIA fellows like to do. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Pratt" To: Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:43 AM Subject: Instrument quality Chris, There are also many battles out here that need fighting in addition to getting the last nanometer resolution from a homebrew seismometer. For the past nine years I have been involved with a regional science fair and have not seen a single seismometer project. The closest I have seen was using a vibration device to measure the ride of an automobile. I had one highschool teacher who let me operate my Lehman from her classroom for a couple weeks each year but now she is gone and there is zero interest in seismology in the area. From where I sit there will not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of resolution. Anyone providing a spark of imagination and an avenue of entry for interested young minds is making a great contribution to seismology or more broadly science. Earth science is falling out of classroom time in favor or green and alternative energy. What will give a student more pride and motivation, connecting a professional device with no understanding of it or constructing a caveman device and recording a distant quake? We are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and energy. Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instrument quality From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:09:59 EDT In a message dated 19/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes: If you accidentally build a patented device and I mean even one not used by anyone you can not market or mass produce it or anything like that unless the existing patent has expired or so I understand. Hi Geoff, The Wood Anderson patent, if there was one, would have run out over 50 years ago. Unfortunately, this modification seems to suffer from a string of design flaws. Regards, Chris.
In a message dated 19/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes:
If you=20 accidentally build a patented device and I mean even one not used by any= one=20 you can not market or mass produce it or anything like that unless the= =20 existing patent has expired or so
I understand.
Hi Geoff,
 
    The Wood Anderson patent, if there was one,= would=20 have run out over 50 years ago.
    Unfortunately, this modification seems to suf= fer=20 from a string of design flaws.  
    
    Regards,
 
    Chris.
Subject: instrument design From: Randall Peters PETERS_RD@.......... Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:12:03 -0400 After following recent discussions concerned with the tradeoffs= that regulate seismometer performance, I decided to offer the following. = Just as Chris has years of significant experience concerned with one of the= two primarily critical factors (electronics), so my physics research for m= ore than two decades has been focused on the other one of these two factors= (mechanical properties, especially 'imperfections'). It is the property o= f real (structural) materials (imperfections associated with creep) that mo= tivated the development of the professional standard of force feedback (rel= atively complicated electronics). Why are the mechanical challenges so important? The answer has= to do with instrument sensitivity. For a 'pure' pendulum, the sensitivity= is proportional to the square of its natural period. If one could readily= make an ideal simple pendulum with a period of 10 s (very long indeed), it= s ability to detect earthquakes would be a hundred times that of a pendulum= having a period of 1 s. It must be understood, however, that period lengt= hening (though necessary) is not a sufficient condition for improved (horiz= ontal) acceleration sensitivity. It accomplishes nothing (for conventional= seismology purposes) when the means for period lengthening involves moving= the center of mass close to the axis of rotation. Such a device can be us= ed for measuring rotational effects of an earthquake, but that is not yet a= part of routine amateur studies. To appreciate what I've just said, take = a uniform stick (such as a meter sick) and hold it vertical with forefinger= and thumb just above its center (functioning as a physical pendulum). Rot= ating the stick away from vertical by pushing with the other hand at the to= p (or bottom), you will see that it can oscillate with a longer period than= a string/bob (simple pendulum) of the same length. Now laterally (horizon= tally) accelerate your hand holding the stick and you will see that there i= s no rotation of the stick whatsoever as your hold-point approaches the sti= ck-center. If creep were not an issue, this system would have zero (conven= tional) earthquake sensitivity even as its period approaches infinity! For= those who want a math-treatment of what I've just described, I can give yo= u a copy of the invited tutorial that I wrote for the BSSA Special issue co= ncerned with rotation, titled "Tutorial on gravitational pendulum theory ap= plied to seismic sensing of translation and rotation". http://www.bssaonlin= e.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/2B/1050 So what should be the primary concern of amateur seismologists.= I believe that more critical thought concerning mechanical properties is = again called for. With such thought the need exists to dispense with 'blin= ders' associated with specific (previous) individual failures to achieve pe= rformance levels that were being sought. For example, most everybody has d= eparted from the use of viscous damping in favor of powerful rare earth mag= nets, functioning by means of induced eddy currents in highly conductive (c= opper) plates. I believe there is merit to the consideration of both uncon= ventional magnet use coupled with a viscous fluid to provide both damping a= nd also buoyancy for period lengthening; which I now describe. In the paper that John Lee and I wrote (mouse sensor for pendu= lum measurements), arxiv.org/html/0904.3070 one will find measurements in which a magnet was used with a ball-point pen= to support the pendulum, while providing a low-friction axis of rotation. = The magnet/pen-point is responsible for a 'destoring' force (away from ver= tical equilibrium), whereas gravity provides a 'restoring' force (torque to= ward vertical when disturbed). The torques from the two act in opposition = to one another, so there is a period lengthening that is beneficial. A commercial horizontal seismometer that successfully uses the = same physical principle is the Kinemetrics SH-1. The torque acting in oppo= sition to gravity is provided by means of a vertical elastic metal strip (s= pring) that holds the seismic mass in an equilibrium position directly abov= e it. The instrument employs two magnet/coil subsystems: (i) one for Farad= ay law detection with which every amateur seismologist is familiar, and the= (ii) other one for calibration (by introducing a current to the coil) and = for damping when operational (by placing a resistor across the coil). What I propose for some of you to experiment with is the follow= ing. Use my magnet/ball-pen for top support and a viscous fluid (such as m= ineral oil) for the 'bob' at the bottom to move in. If the bob is suitably= shaped, and if the amount of its submersion is judiciously chosen, then it= should be possible to get period lengthening of beneficial type from both = the fluid and the pen/magnet. The fluid will serve two purposes, to assist= the magnet in period lengthening and to also provide damping. As the period gets longer, such systems are increasingly sensit= ive to pendulum-structure variations. In other words, just as the sensitiv= ity to an ideal pendulum is proportional to the square of the period, so th= e adverse sensitivity of a non-ideal pendulum to the influence of its struc= tural imperfections. Without some means to minimize the influence of imper= fections, the tendency for the system to 'creep to the mechanical rails' in= creases dramatically as the period lengthens. The conventional means for o= vercoming this creep is to use electronic-based force feedback with a magne= t/coil actuator. I believe, however, that amateur experimentation might di= scover a bob shape with useful liquid-buoyancy (like that of a properly de= signed hull of a ship that is stable rather than unstable). If so, it shou= ld greatly facilitate keeping the pendulum in an operational position. I have not here mentioned sensor type. For those with interest= I can offer thoughts based on my long-time experience with both velocity a= nd position types. Randall Peters

       = ;     After following recent discussions concerned with the tradeoffs that regulate seismometer performance, I decided to offer the following.  Just as Ch= ris has years of significant experience concerned with one of the two primarily critical factors (electronics), so my physics research for more than two decades has been focused on the other one of these two factors (mechanical properties, especially 'imperfections').  It is the property of real (structural) materials (imperfections associated with creep) that motivated= the development of the professional standard of force feedback (relatively complicated electronics). 

       = ;     Why are the mechanical challenges so important?  The answer has to do with instrument sensitivity.  For a 'pure' pendulum, the sensitivity is pro= portional to the square of its natural period.  If one could readily make an ide= al simple pendulum with a period of 10 s (very long indeed), its ability to de= tect earthquakes would be a hundred times that of a pendulum having a period of = 1 s.  It must be understood, however, that period lengthening (though necessary) = is not a sufficient condition for improved (horizontal) acceleration sensitivity.  It accomplishes nothing (for conventional seismology purposes) when the means for period lengthening involves moving the center = of mass close to the axis of rotation.  Such a device can be used for measuring rotational effects of an earthquake, but that is not yet a part o= f routine amateur studies.  To appreciate what I've just said, take a uniform stick (such as a meter sick) and hold it vertical with forefinger a= nd thumb just above its center (functioning as a physical pendulum).  Rotating the stick away from vertical by pushing with the other hand at the= top (or bottom), you will see that it can oscillate with a longer period than a string/bob (simple pendulum) of the same length.  Now laterally (horizontally) accelerate your hand holding the stick and you will see that there is no rotation of the stick whatsoever as your hold-point approaches = the stick-center.  If creep were not an issue, this system would have zero (conventional) earthquake sensitivity even as its period approaches infinity!  For those who want a math-treatment of what I've just described, I can give you a copy of the invited tutorial that I wrote for t= he BSSA Special issue concerned with rotation, titled "Tutorial on gravitational pendulum theory applied to seismic sensing of translation and rotation". http://www.bssaonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/2B/1050

       = ;     So what should be the primary concern of amateur seismologists.  I believ= e that more critical thought concerning mechanical properties is again called for.  With such thought the need exists to dispense with 'blinders' associated with specific (previous) individual failures to achieve performa= nce levels that were being sought.  For example, most everybody has depart= ed from the use of viscous damping in favor of powerful rare earth magnets, functioning by means of induced eddy currents in highly conductive (copper) plates.  I believe there is merit to the consideration of both unconve= ntional magnet use coupled with a viscous fluid to provide both damping and also buoyancy for period lengthening; which I now describe.

       = ;      In the paper that John Lee and I wrote (mouse sensor for pendulum measurements= ), arxiv.org/html/0904.3070

one will find measurements in which a mag= net was used with a ball-point pen to support the pendulum, while providing a low-friction axis of rotation.  The magnet/pen-point is responsible fo= r a 'destoring' force (away from vertical equilibrium), whereas gravity provide= s a 'restoring' force (torque toward vertical when disturbed).  The torque= s from the two act in opposition to one another, so there is a period lengthe= ning that is beneficial.

       = ;     A commercial horizontal seismometer that successfully uses the same physical principle is the Kinemetrics SH-1.  The torque acting in opposition to gravity is provided by means of a vertical elastic metal strip (spring) tha= t holds the seismic mass in an equilibrium position directly above it.  = The instrument employs two magnet/coil subsystems: (i) one for Faraday law dete= ction with which every amateur seismologist is familiar, and the (ii) other one f= or calibration (by introducing a current to the coil) and for damping when operational (by placing a resistor across the coil).

       = ;     What I propose for some of you to experiment with is the following.  Use my magnet/ball-pen for top support and a viscous fluid (such as mineral oil) f= or the 'bob' at the bottom to move in.  If the bob is suitably shaped, an= d if the amount of its submersion is judiciously chosen, then it should be possi= ble to get period lengthening of beneficial type from both the fluid and the pen/magnet.  The fluid will serve two purposes, to assist the magnet i= n period lengthening and to also provide damping. 

          &nb= sp; As the period gets longer, such systems are increasingly sensitive to pendulum-structure variations.  In other words, just as the sensitivit= y to an ideal pendulum is proportional to the square of the period, so the adver= se sensitivity of a non-ideal pendulum to the influence of its structural imperfections.  Without some means to minimize the influence of imperfections, the tendency for the system to 'creep to the mechanical rail= s' increases dramatically as the period lengthens.  The conventional mean= s for overcoming this creep is to use electronic-based force feedback with a magnet/coil actuator.  I believe, however, that amateur experimentatio= n might discover a bob shape with useful liquid-buoyancy  (like that of = a properly designed hull of a ship that is stable rather than unstable). = ; If so, it should greatly facilitate keeping the pendulum in an operational position.

          &nb= sp; I have not here mentioned sensor type.  For those with interest I can of= fer thoughts based on my long-time experience with both velocity and position types. 

    Randall Peters

 

Subject: RE: Instrument quality From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:53:38 -0700 Randy, I know what you mean about not much interest with the younger set and seismology. This past summer I attended the Bay Area Maker Faire. I thought for sure there would be a few exhibits on what people were doing with seismometers. There several buildings all full of various scientific leaning exhibits. Thousands of people and not one booth on seismometers. I was quite disappointed. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Randy Pratt Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:44 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Instrument quality Chris, There are also many battles out here that need fighting in addition to getting the last nanometer resolution from a homebrew seismometer. For the past nine years I have been involved with a regional science fair and have not seen a single seismometer project. The closest I have seen was using a vibration device to measure the ride of an automobile. I had one highschool teacher who let me operate my Lehman from her classroom for a couple weeks each year but now she is gone and there is zero interest in seismology in the area. From where I sit there will not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of resolution. Anyone providing a spark of imagination and an avenue of entry for interested young minds is making a great contribution to seismology or more broadly science. Earth science is falling out of classroom time in favor or green and alternative energy. What will give a student more pride and motivation, connecting a professional device with no understanding of it or constructing a caveman device and recording a distant quake? We are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and energy. Randy

Randy,

I know what you mean about not much interest with the = younger set and seismology. This past summer I attended the Bay Area Maker = Faire. I thought for sure there would be a few exhibits on what people were doing = with seismometers. There several buildings all full of various scientific = leaning exhibits. Thousands of people and not one booth on seismometers. I was = quite disappointed.

Gary

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Randy Pratt
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 8:44 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Instrument quality

 

Chris,=

 

There are also many battles out here that need fighting in addition to getting the last nanometer resolution from a homebrew seismometer.  For the past nine years  I have been = involved with a regional science fair and have not seen a single seismometer = project.  The closest I have seen was using a vibration device to measure the ride = of an automobile.  I had one highschool teacher who let me operate my = Lehman from her classroom for a couple weeks each year but now she is gone = and there is zero interest in seismology in the area.  From where I sit = there will not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of = resolution.  Anyone providing a spark of imagination and an avenue of entry for = interested young minds is making a great contribution to seismology or more broadly science.  Earth science is falling out of classroom time in favor = or green and alternative energy.  What will give a student more pride and = motivation,  connecting a professional device with no understanding of it or constructing a caveman device and recording a distant quake?  We = are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and = energy.

 

Randy<= o:p>

Subject: Re: Instrument quality From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:10:33 EDT In a message dated 19/10/2009, rpratt@............. writes: There are also many battles out here that need fighting in addition to getting the last nanometre resolution from a home-brew seismometer. Hi Randy, Thanks for the feedback and for your different perspective. Sure, but my Email was not primarily concerned with trying to get the last nanometre of sensitivity, but with whether the thing works at all ! Will the detection of only one earthquake a MONTH, when it could and should be several every WEEK, either spark or maintain any significant interest in any of your kids? This seems more than a bit unlikely to me. And encouraging someone to make a considerable effort to build equipment which then doesn't work will definitely kill off ANY interest ! Quote: "Do your homework! A lot of folks out there have already done this, save yourself time, effort, and money by doing some research." So what 'fruits' of caveman's 'research' seem have actually made it through to the design? A very noisy, non linear photo detector was chosen A highly temperature dependant photo emitter was chosen The excitation current was neither stabilised nor temperature compensated A single ended electronic construction was chosen, which does not reduce any common mode effects A multi filament suspension was chosen No details of how to design the sensor to match the frequency range of seismic signals seems to be given No details of how to design and adjust the damper to give 0.7 critical damping seems to be given Getting adequate seismic detection sensitivity is not normally a problem with optical, electromagnetic, magnetic or capacitor sensors, in my experience. I welcome equipment and suggestions which work. Note that caveman had detailed drawings of a Wood Anderson seismometer available to copy / inspire him. Richter used several WA seismometers to develop his Earthquake Magnitude Scale in 1935, so we can assume that they worked reasonably well. For the past nine years I have been involved with a regional science fair and have not seen a single seismometer project. So, having identified one of the problems, can YOU help correct it, please? Is this simply because the students download a list of project suggestions and seismometers are just not on it? Provide information sources and design help? Maybe publicise some seismic projects which actually DO work? Put them on psn? I had one highschool teacher who let me operate my Lehman from her classroom for a couple weeks each year but now she is gone and there is zero interest in seismology in the area. From where I sit there will not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of resolution. How have you been trying to get kids interested in Seismology? Anyone providing a spark of imagination and an avenue of entry for interested young minds is making a great contribution to seismology or more broadly science. Earth science is falling out of classroom time in favour or green and alternative energy. NOT around OUR neck of the woods!! A good quality working Lehman was designed for schools and marketed from Easter 2007. Sales since then have exceeded 400 systems. This is a successful project and we expand further into Europe next year. See _http://www.bgs.ac.uk/schoolseismology/_ (http://www.bgs.ac.uk/schoolseismology/) and click on 'Seismometers'. Remember that we have just 1/5 the population of the USA. I would be quite happy to pass on some details of the design. There is a handbook on the website. There is considerable enthusiasm amongst our pupils for 'Real Science with Real Seismic Signals'. It is 'their' seismometer and small interested groups run it, analyse the quakes with help from AmaSeis, plot them on a world map and keep records. They also get considerable credit for having done a practical scientific project when they apply for a place at University. What will give a student more pride and motivation, connecting a professional device with no understanding of it or constructing a caveman device and recording a distant quake? We are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and energy. Randy What professional devices are you considering? Are you suggesting that it is not possible to make a good quality DIY seismometer? Where is the evidence that the caveman device can give an even marginally adequate performance? One quake a month (maybe) will not provide much competition for Facebook or an IPhone, but it might generate a few Twitters. A few years back, I helped one of your students with his seismic project - very long range help! We discussed the design requirements, principles and details. He had a friend helping with some machining, but made the design choices himself. He produced a good working seismometer and a full written account, complete with recordings of quakes and comparison records from a local broad band seismometer. They were almost identical. He entered this in a Science Fair and won a First Prize. You need many more like him. What you do seem to be lacking in the USA is an inexpensive school seismometer responding flat with velocity from about 5 Hz to 20 seconds. The response must be independant of temperature. It must be easy to set up and operate. Iris seem to be insisting on a vertical sensor. It would be preferable if it was compensated for variations in air pressure, since these are the predominant source of sensor noise. What do you suggest? Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 19/10/2009, rpratt@............. writes:
There are also many battles out he= re that=20 need fighting in addition to getting the last nanometre resolu= tion=20 from a home-brew seismometer.  
Hi Randy,
 
    Thanks for the feedback and for your differen= t=20 perspective.
 
    Sure, but my Email was not primarily concerne= d with=20 trying to get the last nanometre of sensitivity, but with whether the thin= g=20 works at all !
 
    Will the detection of only one earthquake a= MONTH,=20 when it could and should be several every WEEK, either spark or= =20 maintain any significant interest in any of your kids? This seems more tha= n a=20 bit unlikely to me.
 
    And encouraging someone to make a considerabl= e=20 effort to build equipment which then doesn't work will definitely kill=20 off ANY interest !
 
Quote: "Do your homework! A lot of folks out there have already done= this,=20 save yourself time, effort, and money by doing some research."
 
    So what 'fruits' of caveman's 'research'= seem=20 have actually made it through to the design?
 
    A very noisy, non linear photo detector was= =20 chosen
    A highly temperature dependant photo emitter= was=20 chosen The excitation current was neither stabilised nor temperature=20 compensated
    A single ended electronic construction was ch= osen,=20 which does not reduce any common mode effects
    A multi filament suspension was chosen
    No details of how to design the sensor to mat= ch the=20 frequency range of seismic signals seems to be given
    No details of how to design and adjust= the=20 damper to give 0.7 critical damping seems to be given
 
    Getting adequate seismic detection=20 sensitivity is not normally a problem with optical, electromagne= tic,=20 magnetic or capacitor sensors, in my experience. I welcome equipment and= =20 suggestions which work.
 
    Note that caveman had detailed drawings of a= Wood=20 Anderson seismometer available to copy / inspire him. Richter used several= WA=20 seismometers to develop his Earthquake Magnitude Scale in 1935, so we can= assume=20 that they worked reasonably well.
For the past nine years I have= been=20 involved with a regional science fair and have not seen a single seismom= eter=20 project.  
    So, having identified one of the problems,=20 can YOU help correct it, please? Is this simply because the stud= ents=20 download a list of project suggestions and seismometers are just not= on it?=20 Provide information sources and design help? Maybe publicise som= e=20 seismic projects which actually DO work? Put them on psn?
 
   I had one highschool tea= cher who let=20 me operate my Lehman from her classroom for a couple weeks each year = but=20 now she is gone and there is zero interest in seismology in the area. From= where=20 I sit there will not be any new seismologists to use those last bits of=20 resolution. 
 
    How have you been trying to get kids interest= ed in=20 Seismology?
Anyone providing a spark of ima= gination and=20 an avenue of entry for interested young minds is making a great contribu= tion=20 to seismology or more broadly science.  Earth science is falling ou= t of=20 classroom time in favour or green and alternative energy. =20
    NOT around OUR neck of the woods!! A goo= d=20 quality working Lehman was designed for schools and marketed from Easter= 2007.=20 Sales since then have exceeded 400 systems. This is a successful project= and=20 we expand further into Europe next year. See http://www.bgs.ac.uk/schoo= lseismology/  and=20 click on 'Seismometers'.
    Remember that we have just 1/5 the population= of=20 the USA.
    I would be quite happy to pass on some detail= s of=20 the design. There is a handbook on the website. There is considerable enth= usiasm=20 amongst our pupils for 'Real Science with Real Seismic Signals'. It is 'th= eir'=20 seismometer and small interested groups run it, analyse the quakes with he= lp=20 from AmaSeis, plot them on a world map and keep records. They also ge= t=20 considerable credit for having done a practical scientific project wh= en=20 they apply for a place at University. 
What will give a student more= pride and=20 motivation, connecting a professional device with no understanding= of=20 it or constructing a caveman device and recording a distant quake?&= nbsp;=20 We are up against Facebook and IPhones for kids time and energy.<= /DIV>
Randy
    What professional devices are you considering= ?=20
    Are you suggesting that it is not possib= le to=20 make a good quality DIY seismometer?
    Where is the evidence that the cave= man=20 device can give an even marginally adequate performance?
    One quake a month (maybe) will not provide mu= ch=20 competition for Facebook or an IPhone, but it might generate a= =20 few Twitters. 
 
    A few years back, I helped one of your studen= ts=20 with his seismic project - very long range help! We discussed the design= =20 requirements, principles and details. He had a friend helping with some=20 machining, but made the design choices himself. He produced a good wo= rking=20 seismometer and a full written account, complete with recordings of= quakes=20 and comparison records from a local broad band seismometer. They were almo= st=20 identical. He entered this in a Science Fair and won a First Prize.=
    You need many more like him.
 
    What you do seem to be lacking in the USA is= an=20 inexpensive school seismometer responding flat with velocity from about 5= Hz to=20 20 seconds. The response must be independant of temperature. It must be ea= sy to=20 set up and operate. Iris seem to be insisting on a vertical sensor.= It=20 would be preferable if it was compensated for variations in air pressure,= since=20 these are the predominant source of sensor noise.
    What do you suggest? 
    
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:57:59 -0700 (PDT) To all Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more microseismi= c activity the last few days. The background noise on my vertical is around= +/- 300 counts @=A0 8.7 sec=A0 and 6.6 sec=A0 (two narrow peaks). I don't = remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I li= ve about 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone el= se noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at the outpu= t I think I'm looking at surface waves after an event. Barry

To all
Related to instrument quality- = maybe. I have noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days. T= he background noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @  8.7 sec=   and 6.6 sec  (two narrow peaks). I don't remember this magnitud= e in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I live about 200 miles eas= t of the west coast of northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase= in background lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm looking = at surface waves after an event.
Barry

Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:07:17 -0500 Look at the src.psn post on http://www.seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/event.exe regarding "Sneaker Waves." Being a city boy from Northern Texas, I had never heard of "Sneaker Waves." Interesting information through Google. Also, being ex-Navy, I has visions of U.S. Navy "Waves" wearing tennis shoes! Wrong. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Lotz To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms To all Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @ 8.7 sec and 6.6 sec (two narrow peaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm looking at surface waves after an event. Barry
Look at the src.psn post on  http://www.seismicne= t.com/cgi-dos/event.exe =20 regarding "Sneaker Waves."
 
Being a city boy from Northern Texas, I had = never heard of=20 "Sneaker Waves."  Interesting information through Google.  = Also, being=20 ex-Navy, I has visions of U.S. Navy "Waves" wearing tennis shoes! =20 Wrong.
 
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Barry=20 Lotz
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, = 2009 8:57=20 PM
Subject: Re: Instrument quality = -=20 microseisms


To all
Related to instrument quality- = maybe. I=20 have noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days. = The=20 background noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @  = 8.7=20 sec  and 6.6 sec  (two narrow peaks). I don't remember = this=20 magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I live = about=20 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone = else=20 noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at = the=20 output I think I'm looking at surface waves after an=20 = event.
Barry

Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:37:01 -0600 Probably the current tropical storm "Rick", off the west coast of Mexico which was downgraded from hurrican status. Meredith On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Barry Lotz wrote: > > To all > Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more > microseismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my vertical > is around +/- 300 counts @ 8.7 sec and 6.6 sec (two narrow peaks). I > don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. > I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone > else noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at the > output I think I'm looking at surface waves after an event. > Barry > >
Probably the current tropical storm "Rick", off the west coa= st of Mexico which was downgraded
from hurrican status.

Meredith
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Barry Lotz <barry_lotz@sb= cglobal.net> wrote:

To all
Related to instrument quality- maybe. I ha= ve noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days. The backgrou= nd noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @=A0 8.7 sec=A0 and 6.6 se= c=A0 (two narrow peaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past.= I'm sure it is weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the wes= t coast of northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase in backgrou= nd lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm looking at surfa= ce waves after an event.
Barry


Subject: Re: instrument design From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:56:29 -0600 On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Randall Peters wrote: (Clip) Randall, ** In regard to the Kinemetrics SH-1; I'am having difficulty visualizing the spring directlyabove the horizontal pendulum mass. Might you and anyone have a PDF file with a picture/s they could share? > A commercial horizontal seismometer that successfully uses > the same physical principle is the Kinemetrics SH-1. The torque acting in > opposition to gravity is provided by means of a vertical elastic metal strip > (spring) that holds the seismic mass in an equilibrium position directly > above it. The instrument employs two magnet/coil subsystems: (i) one for > Faraday law detection with which every amateur seismologist is familiar, and > the (ii) other one for calibration (by introducing a current to the coil) > and for damping when operational (by placing a resistor across the coil). > > ** Feel free to offer your thoughts on the sensors. > I hae not here mentioned sensor type. For those with interest I can offer > thoughts based on my long-time experience with both velocity and position > types. > > Randall Peters > Meredith Lamb > >

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Randall Peters = <PETERS_RD@mer= cer.edu> wrote:
=A0
(Clip)
=A0
Randall,
=A0
** In regard to the Kinemetrics SH-1; I'am h= aving difficulty visualizing the spring directlyabove the
horizontal pendulum mass.=A0 Might you and anyon= e have a PDF file with a picture/s they could share?

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 A commercial horizo= ntal seismometer that successfully uses the same physical principle is the = Kinemetrics SH-1.=A0 The torque acting in opposition to gravity is provided= by means of a vertical elastic metal strip (spring) that holds the seismic= mass in an equilibrium position directly above it.=A0 The instrument emplo= ys two magnet/coil subsystems: (i) one for Faraday law detection with which= every amateur seismologist is familiar, and the (ii) other one for calibra= tion (by introducing a current to the coil) and for damping when operationa= l (by placing a resistor across the coil).

** Feel free to offe= r your thoughts on the sensors.

I hae not here me= ntioned sensor type.=A0 For those with interest I can offer thoughts based = on my long-time experience with both velocity and position types.=A0

Randall Peters=A0=A0=

=A0
Meredith Lamb
=A0
Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:53:13 -0700 Hi Barry, I'm a little south of you...   I also have increased noise.  Whenever I see this kind of noise, I check with Berkeley at:
http://quake.geo.berkeley.edu/bdsn/make_seismogram.html

If you just create plot without setting time, it will create todays seismogram for CMB... I use 4 for compression to get an hour per line;  and pixels at 25 to get a little separation.  Sorry if I am sharing old info...   if so, maybe it will help others?

If you check the following ocean weather link you will see why...  there are 20 to 25 foot waves off the NW USA coast.   Earlier, they were showing up to 30 foot waves. You can click on any box to see the conditions in the box...  I click on the box that shows Alaska to below Baja...   and yes, the energy is apparently coming from 200 to 400 miles away:
http://www.oceanweather.com/data/

At one time I had my gain so high that noise like this would set off my alarm, (I have a separate alarm, which I built before I had a computer and recording capability).
  Stephen
  PSN Station #55
  38.828N  120.979W
  near Pilot Hill Calif  

Barry Lotz wrote:

To all
Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @  8.7 sec  and 6.6 sec  (two narrow peaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm looking at surface waves after an event.
Barry
Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms<<< GOOD INFO >>>> From: "Jim ODonnell" geophysics@.......... Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 04:43:01 GMT Thank-You Stephen as that IS VERY USEFUL INFORMATION...... Jim Jim O'Donnell- Geophysical Consultant/Contractor Geotechnical/Geothermal/Oil & Gas/Mining Applications Seismic Surveys- Surface Waves, Refraction, & Reflection Ground Penetrating Radar, Resistivity, Magnetic, & VLF-EM Surveys Geophysics@.......... 702.293.5664 702.281.9081 cell = Boulder City, NV ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Stephen & Kathy To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:53:13 -0700 Hi Barry, I'm a little south of you... I also have increased noise. W= henever I see this kind of noise, I check with Berkeley at: http://quake.geo.berkeley.edu/bdsn/make_seismogram.html If you just create plot without setting time, it will create todays seis= mogram for CMB... I use 4 for compression to get an hour per line; and = pixels at 25 to get a little separation. Sorry if I am sharing old info= .... if so, maybe it will help others? = If you check the following ocean weather link you will see why... there= are 20 to 25 foot waves off the NW USA coast. Earlier, they were show= ing up to 30 foot waves. You can click on any box to see the conditions = in the box... I click on the box that shows Alaska to below Baja... a= nd yes, the energy is apparently coming from 200 to 400 miles away: http://www.oceanweather.com/data/ At one time I had my gain so high that noise like this would set off my = alarm, (I have a separate alarm, which I built before I had a computer a= nd recording capability). Stephen PSN Station #55 38.828N 120.979W near Pilot Hill Calif = Barry Lotz wrote: = To all Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more microsei= smic activity the last few days. The background noise on my vertical is = around +/- 300 counts @ 8.7 sec and 6.6 sec (two narrow peaks). I don= 't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related= .. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. = Anyone else noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look = at the output I think I'm looking at surface waves after an event. Barry Thank-You Stephen as that IS VERY USEFUL INFORMATION......&nb= sp;  Jim


Jim O'Donnell- Geophysical Consultant/Cont= ractor
Geotechnical/Geothermal/Oil & Gas/Mining Applications
S= eismic Surveys- Surface Waves, Refraction, & Reflection
Ground Pe= netrating Radar, Resistivity, Magnetic, & VLF-EM Surveys
Geophysi= cs@..........  702.293.5664  702.281.9081 cell   Boulder City, NV


---------- Original Message ----------
F= rom: Stephen & Kathy <skmort@............>
To: psn-l@webtro= nics.com
Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms
Date: Wed, = 21 Oct 2009 20:53:13 -0700

Hi Barry, I'm a li= ttle south of you...   I also have increased noise.  When= ever I see this kind of noise, I check with Berkeley at:
http://quake.geo.berkeley.edu/bdsn/make_seismogram.html

If you just create plot without setting time, it will create to= days seismogram for CMB... I use 4 for compression to get an hour per li= ne;  and pixels at 25 to get a little separation.  Sorry if I = am sharing old info...   if so, maybe it will help others?
If you check the following ocean weather link you will see why...&n= bsp; there are 20 to 25 foot waves off the NW USA coast.   Ear= lier, they were showing up to 30 foot waves. You can click on any box to= see the conditions in the box...  I click on the box that shows Al= aska to below Baja...   and yes, the energy is apparently comi= ng from 200 to 400 miles away:
http://www.oceanweather.com/data/

At one time I had my gain so high that noise like this would se= t off my alarm, (I have a separate alarm, which I built before I had a c= omputer and recording capability).
  Stephen
  PSN Stati= on #55
  38.828N  120.979W
  near Pilot Hill Calif =  

Barry Lotz wrote: =
<= /TR>

To all
Related to instrument quality- m= aybe. I have noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days.= The background noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @  8.= 7 sec  and 6.6 sec  (two narrow peaks). I don't remember this = magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I live about 20= 0 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone else notic= ed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at the output I t= hink I'm looking at surface waves after an event.
Barry

Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Stephen Thanks very much - also. Barry --- On Wed, 10/21/09, Stephen & Kathy wrote: From: Stephen & Kathy Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms To: psn-l@.............. Date: Wednesday, October 21, 2009, 8:53 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0AHi Barry, I'm a little south of you...=A0=A0 I also=0Aha= ve increased noise.=A0 Whenever I see this kind of noise, I check with=0ABe= rkeley at: =0Ahttp://quake.geo.berkeley.edu/bdsn/make_seismogram.html =0A =0AIf you just create plot without setting time, it will create todays=0Ase= ismogram for CMB... I use 4 for compression to get an hour per line;=A0=0Aa= nd pixels at 25 to get a little separation.=A0 Sorry if I am sharing old=0A= info...=A0=A0 if so, maybe it will help others?=20 =0A =0AIf you check the following ocean weather link you will see why...=A0=0At= here are 20 to 25 foot waves off the NW USA coast.=A0=A0 Earlier, they=0Awe= re showing up to 30 foot waves. You can click on any box to see the=0Acondi= tions in the box...=A0 I click on the box that shows Alaska to below=0ABaja= ....=A0=A0 and yes, the energy is apparently coming from 200 to 400=0Amiles = away: =0Ahttp://www.oceanweather.com/data/ =0A =0AAt one time I had my gain so high that noise like this would set off my= =0Aalarm, (I have a separate alarm, which I built before I had a computer= =0Aand recording capability). =0A=A0 Stephen =0A=A0 PSN Station #55 =0A=A0 38.828N=A0 120.979W =0A=A0 near Pilot Hill Calif =A0=20 =0A =0ABarry Lotz wrote:=0A=0A =0A =0A =0A =20 =0ATo all =0ARelated to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more=0Amicros= eismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my=0Avertical is= around +/- 300 counts @=A0 8.7 sec=A0 and 6.6 sec=A0 (two narrow=0Apeaks).= I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is=0Aweather re= lated. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of=0Anorthern Californ= ia. Anyone else noticed an increase in background=0Alately? Every time I lo= ok at the output I think I'm looking at surface=0Awaves after an event. =0ABarry =0A =20 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A=0A =0A Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:11:31 -0400 My experience has been that around this time of year the microseisms have a tendency to turn into "megaseisms". They can get so strong that they pretty much obscure the P/S arrivals of all but the strongest events. I live in central New York, so I customarily compare my data with the Lamont-Doherty 24 hour helicorder at http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl When I am getting clobbered, they typically are too. Interestingly, and I can't quantify it, the rise and fall of the strength of the noise seems to be offset by an hour of two between their data an mine. I can't think of a plausible explanation, other than I may be imagining it. The other thing I would love to hear an explanation for is why the microseism noise is so narrow band. When it is strong, it looks virtually sinusoidal on the monitor, and an FFT of the data shows a very narrow peak. Does anyone know why that is? Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:26:24 -0500 Barry Lotz wrote: > > To all > Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more > microseismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my > vertical is around +/- 300 counts @ 8.7 sec and 6.6 sec (two narrow > peaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is > weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of > northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase in background > lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm looking at surface > waves after an event. > Barry > From about the 9th of October until yesterday, I was getting very strong peaks in the frequency range of .177Hz or period of 6 seconds here in southern Indiana. Today that peak as disappeared and a lesser peak exists at about .142 Hz or period of approximately 7 seconds. It was so strong that I gave up posting earthquakes to the network because they just weren't clear without strong filtering. I, too, looked for a reason; Great Lakes, Gulf of Mexico and both the east and west coast. I could find no real association. I had NO local winds and no serious temperature changes. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:35:10 -0700 Hi- I uploaded the files on Sneaker waves, sorry that I didn't identify where they were from. Whenever I see this pattern I send a notification out on our local email list so the people along the coast up here North of San Francisco will be careful near the water. I made the upload so that local folks could see what the seismic signal from two storms causing beat patterns in the incoming waves and causing quiet periods where the waves are out of phase and then when they get in phase the BIG waves SNEAK up on you! We have had high surf warnings here and so I am not surprised that the background microseismic activity is high right now. My 24-hour heliplot shows this beat pattern quite clearly, check it out on my website at http://gbush.mcn.org/srn.gif. At 06:57 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote: >To all >Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more >microseismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my >vertical is around +/- 300 counts @ 8.7 sec and 6.6 sec (two >narrow peaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm >sure it is weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the west >coast of northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase in >background lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm >looking at surface waves after an event. >Barry George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W Hi- I uploaded the files on Sneaker waves, sorry that I didn't identify where they were from.

Whenever I see this pattern I send a notification out on our local email list so the people along the coast up here North of San Francisco will be careful near the water. I made the upload so that local folks could see what the seismic signal from two storms causing beat patterns in the incoming waves and causing quiet periods where the waves are out of phase and then when they get in phase the BIG waves SNEAK up on you! We have had high surf warnings here and so I am not surprised that the background microseismic activity is high right now.

My 24-hour heliplot shows this beat pattern quite clearly, check it out on my website at http://gbush.mcn.org/srn.gif ..


At 06:57 PM 10/21/2009, you wrote:

To all
Related to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more microseismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my vertical is around +/- 300 counts @  8.7 sec  and 6.6 sec  (two narrow peaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of northern California. Anyone else noticed an increase in background lately? Every time I look at the output I think I'm looking at surface waves after an event.
Barry


George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W Subject: Re: microseisms From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:37:23 -0400 Larry, At 10:11 AM 10/22/2009 -0400, you wrote: >The other thing I would love to hear an explanation for is why the >microseism noise is so narrow band. When it is strong, it looks virtually >sinusoidal on the monitor, and an FFT of the data shows a very narrow >peak. Does anyone know why that is? This still appears to be an active subject among seismologists, but they seem to generally agree on the basics. Low frequency microseisms (generally 8-12 sec) are caused from pressure variations on the ocean floor from large ocean swells. These then get transmitted over great distances through the crust as surface waves. In the Northern hemisphere there are two places where these effects appear mostly to originate, one in the Northeastern Pacific off the Alaska and Canada coasts, and one in the Atlantic, between Newfoundland and Greenland. It sounds to me like those two regions are somehow acting as "resonators" for the ocean wave energy generated by large ocean storms. Since ocean swells are sort of sinusoidal, often with a single predominant frequency, I'm not surprised that their microseisms would be too, and then like other surface waves, as they travel through the crust, any higher frequency harmonics will disappear. One popular theory has it that the double frequency (4-8) second waves result from the interaction of the main swell with a rebounding swell, generated when it hits a coast. The resulting vibration will be at twice the frequency of the original and similarly, somewhat sinusoidal. Another thing to watch when looking at microseisms is where any Low Pass filtering is set. In order for a wave to be non-sinusoidal it must contain harmonic frequencies which could get removed by filtering too low. Regards, Brett Watch our wiggles http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm or watch some very very good wiggles http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:32:59 EDT In a message dated 22/10/2009 15:12:02 GMT Daylight Time, lconklin@............ writes: The other thing I would love to hear an explanation for is why the microseism noise is so narrow band. When it is strong, it looks virtually sinusoidal on the monitor, and an FFT of the data shows a very narrow peak. Does anyone know why that is? Hi Larry, Check _http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter16/chapter16_01.htm_ (http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter16/chapter16_01.htm) and _http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter16/chapter16_04.htm_ (http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter16/chapter16_04.htm) Microseisms are generated by ocean waves, wave action on coasts, cold fronts, storms, hurricanes.... there are several possible causes, some more local than others. At lower wind velocities, you get a much wider range of ocean wave periods and low amplitudes - nearer 'noise'. As the wind velocity and the wave fetch increase, the period increases and the distribution becomes very much more peaked. It may take 1000 wavelengths to fully develop an ocean wave. The 'losenges' that you occasionally see are interference effects from two or more sources. The low amplitude microseisms may have periods of 5 to 7 seconds. At high amplitudes you may see waves of 10 to 12 seconds with well defined beats. One source on the east coast is likely to be in the Atlantic south of Greenland. There is a rough patch of sea with a long fetch about 1,500 km east of Labrador at the moment, with ~20 ft waves. _http://www.oceanweather.com/data/_ (http://www.oceanweather.com/data/) Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 22/10/2009 15:12:02 GMT Daylight Time,=20 lconklin@............ writes:
The=20 other thing I would love to hear an explanation for is why the microseis= m=20 noise is so narrow band.  When it is strong, it looks virtually=20 sinusoidal on the monitor, and an FFT of the data shows a very narrow=20 peak.  Does anyone know why that is?
Hi Larry,
 
    Check http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter16/= chapter16_01.htm
    and http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/ocng_textbook/chapter16/= chapter16_04.htm
 
    Microseisms are generated by ocean waves, wav= e=20 action on coasts, cold fronts, storms, hurricanes.... there are several po= ssible=20 causes, some more local than others. At lower wind velocities, you get=20 a much wider range of ocean wave periods and low amplitudes - nearer= =20 'noise'. As the wind velocity and the wave fetch increase, the period incr= eases=20 and the distribution becomes very much more peaked. It may take 1000 wavel= engths=20 to fully develop an ocean wave. The 'losenges' that you occasionally see= are=20 interference effects from two or more sources. The low amplitude microseis= ms may=20 have periods of 5 to 7 seconds. At high amplitudes you may see waves of 10= to 12=20 seconds with well defined beats. One source on the east coast is like= ly to=20 be in the Atlantic south of Greenland. There is a rough patch of sea with= a long=20 fetch about 1,500 km east of Labrador at the moment, with ~20 ft= =20 waves. http://www.oceanweather.com/dat= a/
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: "Randy Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:29:45 -0500 Chris, I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an unfortunate = attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree that a school = purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a high quality but = I don't see that our schools are at that point or that caveman is = recommending this as a school solution. =20 Let me try to explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school dropped = earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in physical = education hours. We moved shortly after that to another state. Here I = became involved with the science fair and to my shock the largest middle = school in the region did not participate. When I inquired I found no = contract for extra work outside the classroom hours so no science = projects. One high school science teacher explained to me that there is = no time to fit any extra topics in order to meet federal and state = curriculum guidelines. The one teacher that did let me demonstrate a = seismograph left the area and her job was cut. A German exchange = student I am hosting is near the top of the English class and shows = better understanding than most others according to her teacher. She has = only been in the US since August so what does that tell you. Our = political mandates are dumbing down the best students. It really is = approved and budgeted science only and that leaves only individual = interest. An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum = seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and = build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on this = list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. Maybe = something simple like the caveman web page will spark other individual = interest. How well it functions doesn't matter if thinking is set in = motion and the steps to reach something better follow. That's where = learning starts. Think about what percent of aeronautical engineers = started with paper airplanes looping into the ground and being refolded? = Randy
Chris,
 
I apologize for misreading your tone = and=20 intent.  It's an unfortunate attribute of email that it loses=20 personality.  I agree that a school purchasing an instrument for=20 instruction should have a high quality but I don't see that our=20 schools are at that point or that caveman is recommending this as a = school=20 solution. 
 
Let me try to explain my = sensitivity.  My=20 son's middle school dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an = increase=20 in physical education hours.  We moved shortly after that = to another=20 state.  Here I became involved with the science fair and to my = shock the=20 largest middle school in the region did not participate.  When I = inquired I=20 found no contract for extra work outside the classroom hours so no = science=20 projects.  One high school science teacher explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra = topics in=20 order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines.  The one = teacher=20 that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area = and her job=20 was cut.  A German exchange student I am hosting is near the = top of=20 the English class and shows better understanding than most others = according to=20 her teacher.  She has only been in the US since August so = what=20 does that tell you.  Our political mandates are dumbing down the = best=20 students.  It really is = approved and=20 budgeted science only and that leaves only individual = interest.
 
An old magazine article from 1960 = something=20 about a smoked drum seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to = research in=20 1995 and build my first.  The Lehman article has been the basis for = many on=20 this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board = anymore.  Maybe=20 something simple like the caveman web page will spark other = individual=20 interest.  How well it functions doesn't matter = if thinking is=20 set in motion and the steps to reach something better=20 follow.  That's where learning starts.  Think about what = percent=20 of aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into the = ground=20 and being refolded? 
 
Randy
Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:08:43 -0700 I always thought some kind of etchasketch would make a good a graphic device since when your done you can erase the thing over and over again. But unless you photographed it or something you would loose the graph forever. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Pratt" To: Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:29 PM Subject: Re: Instument Quality Chris, I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that point or that caveman is recommending this as a school solution. Let me try to explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in physical education hours. We moved shortly after that to another state. Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock the largest middle school in the region did not participate. When I inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the classroom hours so no science projects. One high school science teacher explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines. The one teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area and her job was cut. A German exchange student I am hosting is near the top of the English class and shows better understanding than most others according to her teacher. She has only been in the US since August so what does that tell you. Our political mandates are dumbing down the best students. It really is approved and budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest. An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will spark other individual interest. How well it functions doesn't matter if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better follow. That's where learning starts. Think about what percent of aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into the ground and being refolded? Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:11:08 -0600 I have a follow up question, only somewhat related. When the sensor is = completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I = expect to see"? I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but = many other things, like the location, and the other components of the = station. We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials = we have. This site is the best tool I have in my workshop. The most common statement I have seen is, "My sensor can see >7.0M = anywhere in the world" I have never complete a sensor which could not = do this. I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick = up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much. I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, = and some of the ideas simply don't work. I learn a lot from both = failures and successes. Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"? Something like: >6.8m anywhere in the world. >6.m within 90 degrees >5.m within 30 degrees =20 All who have been doing this for a while, know what our equipment will = see. If someone, with really nice homebuilt sensors, would share these = numbers, it would act, for me, as a benchmark. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randy Pratt=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM Subject: Re: Instument Quality Chris, I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an unfortunate = attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree that a school = purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a high quality but = I don't see that our schools are at that point or that caveman is = recommending this as a school solution. =20 Let me try to explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school dropped = earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in physical = education hours. We moved shortly after that to another state. Here I = became involved with the science fair and to my shock the largest middle = school in the region did not participate. When I inquired I found no = contract for extra work outside the classroom hours so no science = projects. One high school science teacher explained to me that there is = no time to fit any extra topics in order to meet federal and state = curriculum guidelines. The one teacher that did let me demonstrate a = seismograph left the area and her job was cut. A German exchange = student I am hosting is near the top of the English class and shows = better understanding than most others according to her teacher. She has = only been in the US since August so what does that tell you. Our = political mandates are dumbing down the best students. It really is = approved and budgeted science only and that leaves only individual = interest. An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum = seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and = build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on this = list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. Maybe = something simple like the caveman web page will spark other individual = interest. How well it functions doesn't matter if thinking is set in = motion and the steps to reach something better follow. That's where = learning starts. Think about what percent of aeronautical engineers = started with paper airplanes looping into the ground and being refolded? = Randy
I have a follow up question, only = somewhat=20 related.   When the sensor is completed, one of the first = questions a=20 novice might ask is "What can I expect to see"?     = I know=20 this would depend, not only the sensor, but many other things, like the=20 location, and the other components of the station.
We all try to build the best one we = can, using the=20 ideas and materials we have.   This site is the best tool I = have in my=20 workshop.
 
The most common statement I have seen = is,  "My=20 sensor can see >7.0M anywhere in the world"   I have never = complete=20 a sensor which could not do this.
I view USGS sites, and find equipment = costing=20 thousands of dollars, pick up more and small events, then mine, but not = not by=20 much.
I also know, several of my ideas are = not as=20 sensitive as they could be, and some of the ideas simply don't = work.  =20 I learn a lot from both failures and successes.
 
Could someone state, as best as you can = "What=20 should I expect to see"?
Something like:
>6.8m anywhere in the = world.
>6.m within 90 degrees
>5.m within 30 degrees   =
 
All who have been doing this for a = while, know what=20 our equipment will see.   If someone, with really nice = homebuilt=20 sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a=20 benchmark.
 
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randy=20 Pratt
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 = 12:29=20 AM
Subject: Re: Instument = Quality

Chris,
 
I apologize for misreading your tone = and=20 intent.  It's an unfortunate attribute of email that it = loses=20 personality.  I agree that a school purchasing an instrument for=20 instruction should have a high quality but I don't see that our=20 schools are at that point or that caveman is recommending this as = a=20 school solution. 
 
Let me try to explain my = sensitivity.  My=20 son's middle school dropped earth science to meet state mandates for = an=20 increase in physical education hours.  We moved shortly after = that=20 to another state.  Here I became involved with the science = fair and=20 to my shock the largest middle school in the region did not = participate. =20 When I inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the = classroom hours=20 so no science projects.  One high school science teacher=20 explained to me that there is = no time to=20 fit any extra topics in order to meet federal and state curriculum=20 guidelines.  The one teacher that did let me demonstrate a=20 seismograph left the area and her job was cut.  = A German=20 exchange student I am hosting is near the top of the English class and = shows=20 better understanding than most others according to her teacher.  = She has=20 only been in the US since August so what does that tell = you. =20 Our political mandates are dumbing down the best=20 students.  It really is = approved and=20 budgeted science only and that leaves only individual = interest.
 
An old magazine article from = 1960 something=20 about a smoked drum seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to = research=20 in 1995 and build my first.  The Lehman article has been the = basis for=20 many on this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board=20 anymore.  Maybe something simple like the caveman web page = will=20 spark other individual interest.  How well it functions doesn't = matter=20 if thinking is set in motion and the steps to = reach something=20 better follow.  That's where learning starts.  Think = about what=20 percent of aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping = into=20 the ground and being refolded? 
 
Randy
Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:52:21 -0400 Hi Ted, I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I've seen with my SG system. The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance scatter plot, with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) subjective assessment of the quality of the detection. I have a database of over 800 events. My system is far from an optimal construction and my location is pretty noisy, but I think overall my results are reasonably typical of a fair to middlen amateur system. If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine for comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've included a few other features, and I use it to manage all of my event files. Larry tchannel wrote: > I have a follow up question, only somewhat related. When the sensor is > completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I > expect to see"? I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but > many other things, like the location, and the other components of the > station. > We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials > we have. This site is the best tool I have in my workshop. > > The most common statement I have seen is, "My sensor can see >7.0M > anywhere in the world" I have never complete a sensor which could not > do this. > I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick > up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much. > I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, > and some of the ideas simply don't work. I learn a lot from both > failures and successes. > > Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"? > Something like: > >6.8m anywhere in the world. > >6.m within 90 degrees > >5.m within 30 degrees > > All who have been doing this for a while, know what our equipment will > see. If someone, with really nice homebuilt sensors, would share these > numbers, it would act, for me, as a benchmark. > > Thanks, Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Randy Pratt > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality > > Chris, > > I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an > unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree > that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a > high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that point or > that caveman is recommending this as a school solution. > > Let me try to explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school > dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in > physical education hours. We moved shortly after that to another > state. Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock > the largest middle school in the region did not participate. When I > inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the classroom > hours so no science projects. One high school science teacher > explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in > order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines. The one > teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area > and her job was cut. A German exchange student I am hosting is near > the top of the English class and shows better understanding than > most others according to her teacher. She has only been in the > US since August so what does that tell you. Our political mandates > are dumbing down the best students. It really is approved and > budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest. > > An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum > seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and > build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on > this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. > Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will spark other > individual interest. How well it functions doesn't matter > if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better > follow. That's where learning starts. Think about what percent of > aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into the > ground and being refolded? > > Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:07:41 -0600 Yes Please, Larry, I would like your spreadsheet. tchannel@............ Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Conklin" To: Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:52 AM Subject: Re: Instument Quality > Hi Ted, > > I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I've seen with > my SG system. The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance scatter plot, > with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) subjective > assessment of the quality of the detection. I have a database of over 800 > events. > > My system is far from an optimal construction and my location is pretty > noisy, but I think overall my results are reasonably typical of a fair to > middlen amateur system. > > If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine > for comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've > included a few other features, and I use it to manage all of my event > files. > > Larry > > tchannel wrote: >> I have a follow up question, only somewhat related. When the sensor is >> completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I >> expect to see"? I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but >> many other things, like the location, and the other components of the >> station. >> We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials we >> have. This site is the best tool I have in my workshop. >> The most common statement I have seen is, "My sensor can see >7.0M >> anywhere in the world" I have never complete a sensor which could not >> do this. >> I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick >> up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much. >> I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, >> and some of the ideas simply don't work. I learn a lot from both >> failures and successes. >> Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"? >> Something like: >> >6.8m anywhere in the world. >> >6.m within 90 degrees >> >5.m within 30 degrees All who have been doing this for a while, know >> what our equipment will see. If someone, with really nice homebuilt >> sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a benchmark. >> Thanks, Ted >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Randy Pratt >> *To:* psn-l@.............. >> *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality >> >> Chris, >> I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an >> unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree >> that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a >> high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that point or >> that caveman is recommending this as a school solution. Let me try to >> explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school >> dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in >> physical education hours. We moved shortly after that to another >> state. Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock >> the largest middle school in the region did not participate. When I >> inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the classroom >> hours so no science projects. One high school science teacher >> explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in >> order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines. The one >> teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area >> and her job was cut. A German exchange student I am hosting is near >> the top of the English class and shows better understanding than >> most others according to her teacher. She has only been in the >> US since August so what does that tell you. Our political mandates >> are dumbing down the best students. It really is approved and >> budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest. >> An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum >> seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and >> build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on >> this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. >> Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will spark other >> individual interest. How well it functions doesn't matter >> if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better >> follow. That's where learning starts. Think about what percent of >> aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into the >> ground and being refolded? Randy > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: ELECTRON MICROSCOPE From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:23:42 -0700 Would it be possible to somehow use an electron microscope to actually measure a real displacement of a pendulum or spring mass thingamajig ?? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:21:56 EDT Hi Larry, Would appreciate receiving a copy. Thanks and regards, Al In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:53:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time, lconklin@............ writes: Hi Ted, I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I've seen with my SG system. The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance scatter plot, with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) subjective assessment of the quality of the detection. I have a database of over 800 events. My system is far from an optimal construction and my location is pretty noisy, but I think overall my results are reasonably typical of a fair to middlen amateur system. If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine for comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've included a few other features, and I use it to manage all of my event files. Larry tchannel wrote: > I have a follow up question, only somewhat related. When the sensor is > completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I > expect to see"? I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but > many other things, like the location, and the other components of the > station. > We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials > we have. This site is the best tool I have in my workshop. > > The most common statement I have seen is, "My sensor can see >7.0M > anywhere in the world" I have never complete a sensor which could not > do this. > I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick > up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much. > I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, > and some of the ideas simply don't work. I learn a lot from both > failures and successes. > > Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"? > Something like: > >6.8m anywhere in the world. > >6.m within 90 degrees > >5.m within 30 degrees > > All who have been doing this for a while, know what our equipment will > see. If someone, with really nice homebuilt sensors, would share these > numbers, it would act, for me, as a benchmark. > > Thanks, Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Randy Pratt > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality > > Chris, > > I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an > unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree > that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a > high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that point or > that caveman is recommending this as a school solution. > > Let me try to explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school > dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in > physical education hours. We moved shortly after that to another > state. Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock > the largest middle school in the region did not participate. When I > inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the classroom > hours so no science projects. One high school science teacher > explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in > order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines. The one > teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area > and her job was cut. A German exchange student I am hosting is near > the top of the English class and shows better understanding than > most others according to her teacher. She has only been in the > US since August so what does that tell you. Our political mandates > are dumbing down the best students. It really is approved and > budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest. > > An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum > seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and > build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on > this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. > Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will spark other > individual interest. How well it functions doesn't matter > if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better > follow. That's where learning starts. Think about what percent of > aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into the > ground and being refolded? > > Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Hi Larry,
    Would appreciate recei= ving a=20 copy.
    Thanks and=20 regards,
    Al
 
In a message dated 10/23/2009 8:53:13 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 lconklin@............ writes:
Hi=20 Ted,

I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events= I've=20 seen
with my SG system.  The sheet includes a magnitude vs dist= ance=20 scatter
plot, with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (v= ery)=20
subjective assessment of the quality of the detection.  I have= a=20
database of over 800 events.

My system is far from an optimal= =20 construction and my location is pretty
noisy, but I think overall my= =20 results are reasonably typical of a fair
to middlen amateur=20 system.

If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and= data=20 to examine
for comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send= it to=20 you.
I've included a few other features, and I use it to manage all= of my=20
event files.

Larry

tchannel wrote:
> I have a fo= llow=20 up question, only somewhat related.   When the sensor is
&= gt;=20 completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I= =20
> expect to see"?     I know this would depend, no= t only=20 the sensor, but
> many other things, like the location, and the= other=20 components of the
> station.
> We all try to build the best= one=20 we can, using the ideas and materials
> we have.   This= site=20 is the best tool I have in my workshop.
> 
> The most= common=20 statement I have seen is,  "My sensor can see >7.0M
> any= where=20 in the world"   I have never complete a sensor which could not= =20
> do this.
> I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing= =20 thousands of dollars, pick
> up more and small events, then mine,= but=20 not not by much.
> I also know, several of my ideas are not as sen= sitive=20 as they could be,
> and some of the ideas simply don't=20 work.   I learn a lot from both
> failures and=20 successes.
> 
> Could someone state, as best as you ca= n=20 "What should I expect to see"?
> Something like:
>  >= ;6.8m=20 anywhere in the world.
>  >6.m within 90 degrees
>&n= bsp;=20 >5.m within 30 degrees 
> 
> All who have bee= n=20 doing this for a while, know what our equipment will
> see. =  =20 If someone, with really nice homebuilt sensors, would share these
&g= t;=20 numbers, it would act, for me, as a benchmark.
> 
> Th= anks,=20 Ted
>
>     ----- Original Message=20 -----
>     *From:* Randy Pratt=20 <mailto:rpratt@.............>
>     *To:*=20 psn-l@.............. <mailto:psn-l@..............>
> = =20    *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM
> =20    *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality
>
> =20    Chris,
>     
>   &nb= sp; I=20 apologize for misreading your tone and intent.  It's an
>&nbs= p;=20    unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality.&n= bsp; I=20 agree
>     that a school purchasing an instrument= for=20 instruction should have a
>     high quality but I= don't=20 see that our schools are at that point or
>     tha= t=20 caveman is recommending this as a school solution.
>   = =20  
>     Let me try to explain my sensitivity.=  =20 My son's middle school
>     dropped earth science= to=20 meet state mandates for an increase in
>     physic= al=20 education hours.  We moved shortly after that to another
>&nb= sp;=20    state.  Here I became involved with the science fair= and to=20 my shock
>     the largest middle school in the reg= ion=20 did not participate.  When I
>     inquired I= found=20 no contract for extra work outside the classroom
>   &nb= sp;=20 hours so no science projects.  One high school science=20 teacher
>     explained to me that there is no time= to=20 fit any extra topics in
>     order to meet federal= and=20 state curriculum guidelines.  The one
>     te= acher=20 that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area
> =20    and her job was cut.  A German exchange student I am= hosting=20 is near
>     the top of the English class and show= s=20 better understanding than
>     most others accordi= ng to=20 her teacher.  She has only been in the
>    = US=20 since August so what does that tell you.  Our political=20 mandates
>     are dumbing down the best students.&= nbsp;=20 It really is approved and
>     budgeted science on= ly and=20 that leaves only individual interest.
>     =20
>     An old magazine article from 1960 something= about=20 a smoked drum
>     seismograph stuck in my mind un= til I=20 started to research in 1995 and
>     build my=20 first.  The Lehman article has been the basis for many on
>&n= bsp;=20    this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board= =20 anymore.
>     Maybe something simple like the cav= eman=20 web page will spark other
>     individual=20 interest.  How well it functions doesn't matter
> =20    if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach somethi= ng=20 better
>     follow.  That's where learning=20 starts.  Think about what percent of
>    =20 aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into=20 the
>     ground and being refolded?
> = =20    
>    =20 Randy
__________________________________________________________
<= BR>Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:28:18 -0600 I forgot to mention another variables, obvious, but may be not to newcomers. Each earthquake is unique. Sometimes a 6m will be clearly visible, and sometimes another 6m, same distance, same size will not be visible. And of course your background noise at the time, is a major factor. Lastly, the preliminary USGS event reports, can be modified, as more information becomes available, changing a 6.0m to a 5.7m etc. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Conklin" To: Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:52 AM Subject: Re: Instument Quality > Hi Ted, > > I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I've seen with > my SG system. The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance scatter plot, > with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) subjective > assessment of the quality of the detection. I have a database of over 800 > events. > > My system is far from an optimal construction and my location is pretty > noisy, but I think overall my results are reasonably typical of a fair to > middlen amateur system. > > If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine > for comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've > included a few other features, and I use it to manage all of my event > files. > > Larry > > tchannel wrote: >> I have a follow up question, only somewhat related. When the sensor is >> completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I >> expect to see"? I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but >> many other things, like the location, and the other components of the >> station. >> We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials we >> have. This site is the best tool I have in my workshop. >> The most common statement I have seen is, "My sensor can see >7.0M >> anywhere in the world" I have never complete a sensor which could not >> do this. >> I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick >> up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much. >> I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, >> and some of the ideas simply don't work. I learn a lot from both >> failures and successes. >> Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"? >> Something like: >> >6.8m anywhere in the world. >> >6.m within 90 degrees >> >5.m within 30 degrees All who have been doing this for a while, know >> what our equipment will see. If someone, with really nice homebuilt >> sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a benchmark. >> Thanks, Ted >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Randy Pratt >> *To:* psn-l@.............. >> *Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality >> >> Chris, >> I apologize for misreading your tone and intent. It's an >> unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. I agree >> that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should have a >> high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that point or >> that caveman is recommending this as a school solution. Let me try to >> explain my sensitivity. My son's middle school >> dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase in >> physical education hours. We moved shortly after that to another >> state. Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock >> the largest middle school in the region did not participate. When I >> inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the classroom >> hours so no science projects. One high school science teacher >> explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in >> order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines. The one >> teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the area >> and her job was cut. A German exchange student I am hosting is near >> the top of the English class and shows better understanding than >> most others according to her teacher. She has only been in the >> US since August so what does that tell you. Our political mandates >> are dumbing down the best students. It really is approved and >> budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest. >> An old magazine article from 1960 something about a smoked drum >> seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1995 and >> build my first. The Lehman article has been the basis for many on >> this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board anymore. >> Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will spark other >> individual interest. How well it functions doesn't matter >> if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better >> follow. That's where learning starts. Think about what percent of >> aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into the >> ground and being refolded? Randy > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: ELECTRON MICROSCOPE From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:12:34 EDT In a message dated 23/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes: Would it be possible to somehow use an electron microscope to actually measure a real displacement of a pendulum or spring mass thingamajig ?? Hi Goeff, I suppose that you could build one inside a vacuum system, but why bother? LVDT sensors can be made to work down to 0.1 nano metre. Differential capacitor types can give over 10x more resolution and you are then close to atomic dimensions. The practical problem then becomes the temperature stability of the sensor. However, this is way below the amplitude of the quiet earth graph - you can't see any signals below the natural seismic noise level. Modern seismometers are usually enclosed in a sealed can to remove atmospheric pressure noise. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 23/10/2009, gmvoeth@........... writes:
Would it=20 be possible to somehow use an electron microscope to actually measure a= =20 real
displacement of a pendulum or spring mass thingamajig=20 ??
Hi Goeff,
 
        I suppose that you co= uld=20 build one inside a vacuum system, but why bother?
 
    LVDT sensors can be made to work down to 0.1= nano=20 metre. Differential capacitor types can give over 10x more resolution and= you=20 are then close to atomic dimensions. The practical problem then becom= es the=20 temperature stability of the sensor.
    
    However, this is way below the amplitude of= the=20 quiet earth graph - you can't see any signals below the natural seism= ic=20 noise level. Modern seismometers are usually enclosed in a sealed can to= remove=20 atmospheric pressure noise.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:18:09 -0400 Ted, At 07:11 AM 10/23/2009 -0600, you wrote: >I have a follow up question, only somewhat related. When the sensor is >completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can I >expect to see"? I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but >many other things, like the location, and the other components of the station. I agree that it depends on a lot of things other than the sensor quality. For the smaller quakes, the fault orientation and depth are also important. Some that are "pointed" properly and not too deep can come in strongly, while others of the same magnitude and distance will not be visible. Using the worldwide statistics from http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqstats.html I get, roughly: M 8+ 1/ year M 7+ 1/ 3 weeks M 6+ 3/ week M 5+ 4/ day M 4+ 1.7/ hour As noted, the rate for the lower magnitudes should be reduced to eliminate quakes which are not oriented well or too deep to generate surface waves, and depending on where I am located, adjusted to favor those quakes which are closer. I have the impression that fault orientation may be considerably more important than distance. If my instrument and site allow me to see Mag 7's, I may be waiting weeks to see something. If it can see half of all the Mag. 5's, I will probably be seeing a couple a day. That would be my strongest argument for working to have the best setup possible--lots more action. Dave (California) Nelson's vertical will see the surface waves from a few in the high 4's and many in the 5's. See the link below: Curiously, the ANMO Albuquerque borehole seismo, considered to be among the best, sometimes doesn't see as much as the home-built instrument. They apparently are using a 20-second *low pass* filter for their helicorder trace, which often cuts out quite a lot which would otherwise be seen with less agressive filtering. Brett Watch our wiggles http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm or watch some very very good wiggles http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instument Quality From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:01:42 -0700 (PDT) Larry I like the idea. I have been using a spiral binder and pencil for 17 yrs. := ). I have used Excel for other things but -- sometimes it's hard to see the= obvious. I would like to include the event info and distance to my station= and also the signal size I record (P-P). That way I can plot count vs magn= itude vs distance with the computer rather than by hand. Is there a conveni= ent way to import the=A0 winquake data? I can always do it by hand. Regards Barry =A0 --- On Fri, 10/23/09, Larry Conklin wrote: From: Larry Conklin Subject: Re: Instument Quality To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:52 AM Hi Ted, I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I've seen with = my SG system.=A0 The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance scatter plot, w= ith each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) subjective assess= ment of the quality of the detection.=A0 I have a database of over 800 even= ts. My system is far from an optimal construction and my location is pretty noi= sy, but I think overall my results are reasonably typical of a fair to midd= len amateur system. If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine fo= r comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've incl= uded a few other features, and I use it to manage all of my event files. Larry tchannel wrote: > I have a follow up question, only somewhat related.=A0=A0=A0When the sens= or is completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can= I expect to see"?=A0 =A0=A0=A0I know this would depend, not only the senso= r, but many other things, like the location, and the other components of th= e station. > We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials we= have.=A0=A0=A0This site is the best tool I have in my workshop. >=A0 The most common statement I have seen is,=A0 "My sensor can see >7.0M = anywhere in the world"=A0=A0=A0I have never complete a sensor which could n= ot do this. > I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick = up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much. > I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, a= nd some of the ideas simply don't work.=A0=A0=A0I learn a lot from both fai= lures and successes. >=A0 Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"? > Something like: >=A0 >6.8m anywhere in the world. >=A0 >6.m within 90 degrees >=A0 >5.m within 30 degrees=A0=A0=A0All who have been doing this for a whil= e, know what our equipment will see.=A0=A0=A0If someone, with really nice h= omebuilt sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a ben= chmark. >=A0 Thanks, Ted >=20 >=A0 =A0=A0=A0----- Original Message ----- >=A0 =A0=A0=A0*From:* Randy Pratt >=A0 =A0=A0=A0*To:* psn-l@.............. >=A0 =A0=A0=A0*Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM >=A0 =A0=A0=A0*Subject:* Re: Instument Quality >=20 >=A0 =A0=A0=A0Chris, >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I apologize for misreading your tone and intent.=A0 It= 's an >=A0 =A0=A0=A0unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality.=A0 = I agree >=A0 =A0=A0=A0that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should= have a >=A0 =A0=A0=A0high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that poi= nt or >=A0 =A0=A0=A0that caveman is recommending this as a school solution.=A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Let me try to explain my sensitivity.=A0 My son's middle sc= hool >=A0 =A0=A0=A0dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase = in >=A0 =A0=A0=A0physical education hours.=A0 We moved shortly after that to a= nother >=A0 =A0=A0=A0state.=A0 Here I became involved with the science fair and to= my shock >=A0 =A0=A0=A0the largest middle school in the region did not participate.= =A0 When I >=A0 =A0=A0=A0inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the class= room >=A0 =A0=A0=A0hours so no science projects.=A0 One high school science teac= her >=A0 =A0=A0=A0explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics= in >=A0 =A0=A0=A0order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines.=A0 The= one >=A0 =A0=A0=A0teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the ar= ea >=A0 =A0=A0=A0and her job was cut.=A0 A German exchange student I am hostin= g is near >=A0 =A0=A0=A0the top of the English class and shows better understanding t= han >=A0 =A0=A0=A0most others according to her teacher.=A0 She has only been in= the >=A0 =A0=A0=A0US since August so what does that tell you.=A0 Our political = mandates >=A0 =A0=A0=A0are dumbing down the best students.=A0 It really is approved = and >=A0 =A0=A0=A0budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interes= t. >=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 An old magazine article from 1960 something about a sm= oked drum >=A0 =A0=A0=A0seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1= 995 and >=A0 =A0=A0=A0build my first.=A0 The Lehman article has been the basis for = many on >=A0 =A0=A0=A0this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board an= ymore.=A0 =A0=A0=A0Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will sp= ark other >=A0 =A0=A0=A0individual interest.=A0 How well it functions doesn't matter >=A0 =A0=A0=A0if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something= better >=A0 =A0=A0=A0follow.=A0 That's where learning starts.=A0 Think about what = percent of >=A0 =A0=A0=A0aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping i= nto the >=A0 =A0=A0=A0ground and being refolded?=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
Stephen
Thanks very much - also.
Barry<= br>

--- On Wed, 10/21/09, Stephen & Kathy <skmort@wildb= lue.net> wrote:

From: Stephen &a= mp; Kathy <skmort@............>
Subject: Re: Instrument quality - = microseisms
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Wednesday, October 21, 200= 9, 8:53 PM

=0A=0A=0A =0A = =0AHi Barry, I'm a little south of you...  = I also=0Ahave increased noise.  Whenever I see this kind of noise, I = check with=0ABerkeley at:
=0Ahttp://quake.geo.berkeley.edu/bdsn/make_seismogram.html
=0A
=0AIf you just create plot without setting time, it will create= todays=0Aseismogram for CMB... I use 4 for compression to get an hour per = line; =0Aand pixels at 25 to get a little separation.  Sorry if I= am sharing old=0Ainfo...   if so, maybe it will help others? =0A
=0AIf you check the following ocean weather link you will see why..= .. =0Athere are 20 to 25 foot waves off the NW USA coast.   E= arlier, they=0Awere showing up to 30 foot waves. You can click on any box t= o see the=0Aconditions in the box...  I click on the box that shows Al= aska to below=0ABaja...   and yes, the energy is apparently comin= g from 200 to 400=0Amiles away:
=0Ahttp://www.oceanweather.com/data/
=0A
=0AAt one time I had my ga= in so high that noise like this would set off my=0Aalarm, (I have a separat= e alarm, which I built before I had a computer=0Aand recording capability).=
=0A  Stephen
=0A  PSN Station #55
=0A  38.828N&nbs= p; 120.979W
=0A  near Pilot Hill Calif  
=0A=0ABarry Lotz wrote:=0A
=0A =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A <= /tbody>=0A

=0ATo all=0ARelated to instrument quality- maybe. I have noticed a lot more=0Amicro= seismic activity the last few days. The background noise on my=0Avertical i= s around +/- 300 counts @  8.7 sec  and 6.6 sec  (two narrow= =0Apeaks). I don't remember this magnitude in years past. I'm sure it is=0A= weather related. I live about 200 miles east of the west coast of=0Anorther= n California. Anyone else noticed an increase in background=0Alately? Every= time I look at the output I think I'm looking at surface=0Awaves after an = event.
=0ABarry
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A =0A
Larry
I like the idea. I have been using a= spiral binder and pencil for 17 yrs. :). I have used Excel for other thing= s but -- sometimes it's hard to see the obvious. I would like to include th= e event info and distance to my station and also the signal size I record (= P-P). That way I can plot count vs magnitude vs distance with the computer = rather than by hand. Is there a convenient way to import the  winquake= data? I can always do it by hand.
Regards
Barry
 

---= On Fri, 10/23/09, Larry Conklin <lconklin@............> wrote:

From: Larry Conklin <lconklin@t= wcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Instument Quality
To: psn-l@............. om
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:52 AM

Hi Ted,

I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I'= ve seen with my SG system.  The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance= scatter plot, with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) s= ubjective assessment of the quality of the detection.  I have a databa= se of over 800 events.

My system is far from an optimal construction= and my location is pretty noisy, but I think overall my results are reason= ably typical of a fair to middlen amateur system.

If you or anyone e= lse would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine for comparison to yo= ur own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've included a few other f= eatures, and I use it to manage all of my event files.

Larry

= tchannel wrote:
> I have a follow up question, only somewhat related.=    When the sensor is completed, one of the first questions = a novice might ask is "What can I expect to see"?     I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but many = other things, like the location, and the other components of the station.> We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materia= ls we have.   This site is the best tool I have in my worksh= op.
>  The most common statement I have seen is,  "My senso= r can see >7.0M anywhere in the world"   I have never com= plete a sensor which could not do this.
> I view USGS sites, and find= equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick up more and small events, the= n mine, but not not by much.
> I also know, several of my ideas are n= ot as sensitive as they could be, and some of the ideas simply don't work.&= nbsp;  I learn a lot from both failures and successes.
>&nb= sp; Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"?<= br>> Something like:
>  >6.8m anywhere in the world.
>  >6.m within 90 degrees
>  >5.m withi= n 30 degrees   All who have been doing this for a while, kno= w what our equipment will see.   If someone, with really nic= e homebuilt sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a = benchmark.
>  Thanks, Ted
>
>    &nb= sp;----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Ran= dy Pratt <mailto:rpratt@.............>
>&nbs= p;    *To:* psn-l@.............. <mai= lto:psn-l@..............>
>    &= nbsp;*Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality
>
>  =    Chris,
>          I apolog= ize for misreading your tone and intent.  It's an
>   =   unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. = I agree
>     that a school purchasing an instru= ment for instruction should have a
>     high qua= lity but I don't see that our schools are at that point or
>  &n= bsp;  that caveman is recommending this as a school solution.&nbs= p;         Let me try to explain my sensitivity.  = My son's middle school
>     dropped earth scienc= e to meet state mandates for an increase in
>     = ;physical education hours.  We moved shortly after that to another
= >     state.  Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock
>     the = largest middle school in the region did not participate.  When I
&g= t;     inquired I found no contract for extra work outs= ide the classroom
>     hours so no science proje= cts.  One high school science teacher
>     = explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in
>&nb= sp;    order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines= ..  The one
>     teacher that did let me dem= onstrate a seismograph left the area
>     and he= r job was cut.  A German exchange student I am hosting is near
>=      the top of the English class and shows better unde= rstanding than
>     most others according to her= teacher.  She has only been in the
>     US since August so what does that tell you.  Our po= litical mandates
>     are dumbing down the best = students.  It really is approved and
>     b= udgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest.
> = ;         An old magazine article from 1960 something a= bout a smoked drum
>     seismograph stuck in my = mind until I started to research in 1995 and
>    &nbs= p;build my first.  The Lehman article has been the basis for many on>     this list but few of us are using pipe fitti= ngs on a board anymore.     Maybe something simple like= the caveman web page will spark other
>     indi= vidual interest.  How well it functions doesn't matter
>  &= nbsp;  if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better
>     follow.  That's wher= e learning starts.  Think about what percent of
>   &n= bsp; aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into = the
>     ground and being refolded?   =       Randy
____________________________________________= ______________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To= leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMIC= NET.COM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
= See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
<= /blockquote>
Subject: Re: instrument design From: "James Allen" jcallen1@........... Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:14:56 -0700 To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on Ebay = with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. Jim Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: meredith lamb=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:56 PM Subject: Re: instrument design On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Randall Peters = wrote: (Clip) Randall, ** In regard to the Kinemetrics SH-1; I'am having difficulty = visualizing the spring directlyabove the horizontal pendulum mass. Might you and anyone have a PDF file with a = picture/s they could share? A commercial horizontal seismometer that successfully = uses the same physical principle is the Kinemetrics SH-1. The torque = acting in opposition to gravity is provided by means of a vertical = elastic metal strip (spring) that holds the seismic mass in an = equilibrium position directly above it. The instrument employs two = magnet/coil subsystems: (i) one for Faraday law detection with which = every amateur seismologist is familiar, and the (ii) other one for = calibration (by introducing a current to the coil) and for damping when = operational (by placing a resistor across the coil).=20 ** Feel free to offer your thoughts on the sensors. I hae not here mentioned sensor type. For those with interest I can = offer thoughts based on my long-time experience with both velocity and = position types. =20 Randall Peters =20 Meredith Lamb
To Meredith and all, there is a = Kinemetrics SH1=20 currently listed on Ebay with the case removed so that you can see the=20 mechanism.
Jim Allen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, = 2009 7:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: instrument = design



On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Randall = Peters <PETERS_RD@..........> = wrote:
 
(Clip)
 
Randall,
 
** In regard to the Kinemetrics SH-1; I'am = having=20 difficulty visualizing the spring directlyabove the
horizontal pendulum mass.  Might you and = anyone=20 have a PDF file with a picture/s they could share?

             = A commercial horizontal seismometer that successfully uses the same = physical=20 principle is the Kinemetrics SH-1.  The torque acting in = opposition to=20 gravity is provided by means of a vertical elastic metal strip = (spring) that=20 holds the seismic mass in an equilibrium position directly above = it. =20 The instrument employs two magnet/coil subsystems: (i) one for = Faraday law=20 detection with which every amateur seismologist is familiar, and the = (ii)=20 other one for calibration (by introducing a current to the coil) and = for=20 damping when operational (by placing a resistor across the coil).=20

** Feel free to = offer your=20 thoughts on the sensors.

I hae not = here mentioned sensor type.  For those = with interest=20 I can offer thoughts based on my long-time experience with both = velocity and=20 position types. 

Randall=20 Peters  

 
Meredith Lamb
 
Subject: Re: Quake data spreadsheet From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:36:02 -0400 Hi Barry, I just maintain my spreadsheet database by hand. When I record a new event, I file away the event data and add a corresponding entry to the spreadsheet. I use the spreadsheet as a sort of index into my archive of event data files. What I did was to write a spreadsheet macro that allows me to select an event file name in the sheet and call up Winquake to display that file. Just click it and view it, right from the spreadsheet. I can also pass the file to a home brew program that replays the event on the monitor, and a couple of other things. If you are looking for a way to import the event header data directly from Winquake into a spreadsheet, I don't think there is a simple way to do that. I suppose you could write a program that would scan a directory full of event files and extract selected header data into a set of comma separated fields in a data file that an Excel spreadsheet could then import. Would be in interesting exercise, but not entirely trivial to do it right. Larry Barry Lotz wrote: > Larry > I like the idea. I have been using a spiral binder and pencil for 17 > yrs. :). I have used Excel for other things but -- sometimes it's hard > to see the obvious. I would like to include the event info and distance > to my station and also the signal size I record (P-P). That way I can > plot count vs magnitude vs distance with the computer rather than by > hand. Is there a convenient way to import the winquake data? I can > always do it by hand. > Regards > Barry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Quake data spreadsheet From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:16:37 -0700 This sounds like something I would like to try, do you mind sharing the excel macro? Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Conklin Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:36 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Quake data spreadsheet Hi Barry, I just maintain my spreadsheet database by hand. When I record a new event, I file away the event data and add a corresponding entry to the spreadsheet. I use the spreadsheet as a sort of index into my archive of event data files. What I did was to write a spreadsheet macro that allows me to select an event file name in the sheet and call up Winquake to display that file. Just click it and view it, right from the spreadsheet. I can also pass the file to a home brew program that replays the event on the monitor, and a couple of other things. If you are looking for a way to import the event header data directly from Winquake into a spreadsheet, I don't think there is a simple way to do that. I suppose you could write a program that would scan a directory full of event files and extract selected header data into a set of comma separated fields in a data file that an Excel spreadsheet could then import. Would be in interesting exercise, but not entirely trivial to do it right. Larry Barry Lotz wrote: > Larry > I like the idea. I have been using a spiral binder and pencil for 17 > yrs. :). I have used Excel for other things but -- sometimes it's hard > to see the obvious. I would like to include the event info and distance > to my station and also the signal size I record (P-P). That way I can > plot count vs magnitude vs distance with the computer rather than by > hand. Is there a convenient way to import the winquake data? I can > always do it by hand. > Regards > Barry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: instrument design From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:38:07 -0600 Hi James, Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! The pictures were ~ vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top. Interesting hanging mass approach. I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensor on the bottom for rough centering purposes? The seller may send a PDF file on such which might also give more overall insight. Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat metal strip would work out? Meredith On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen wrote: > To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on Ebay > with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. > Jim Allen > > > >
Hi James,
=A0
Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer!=A0 The picture= s were ~ vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top.=A0 Interesti= ng hanging mass approach.=A0 I am "speculating" that it has a pho= to sensor
on the bottom for rough centering purposes?=A0 The=A0seller may send a= PDF file=A0on such which might
also give more overall insight.=A0
=A0
Makes me wonder=A0whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat me= tal strip would work out?
=A0
Meredith=A0

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen <jcallen1@verizon= ..net> wrote:
To Meredith and all, there is a Kineme= trics SH1 currently listed on Ebay with the case removed so that you can se= e the mechanism.
Jim Allen
=A0
Subject: Re: Quake data spreadsheet From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:22:37 -0400 Hi Setephen, Below is a copy of the macro, cut & pasted right out of the spreadsheet. The basic idea is to use the VBA Shell() function to call an external program and pass the name of the file to be executed as a command line argument. You could do this with most anthing, provided that the program you pick expects command line arguments. Take note that some of the lines in the code got folded to fit this e-mail. (Ie. DataFilePath =.... , ExecutablePath = ... , ProcID = ...) If you want to try it out I'd be happy to send you a copy of the whole thing, along with a little file of "user notes" that I put together. One little Winquake enhancement I'd love to see (hint, hint) is the capability to take more than file name argument on the command line. You can already select more than one file in the file open dialog box, and if the files are compatable (same time parameters) they open together, which allows direct comparison and manipulation of the two files. If I use my spreadsheet to open more than one file, both open in their own windows in Winquake, but any manipulations in one file window do not affect the other. Larry Sub RunWinquake() ' ' Pass a selected event file to Winquake for execution. The ' event file is selected by selecting the event file name in ' the spreadsheet. ' Dim ProcID Dim DataFilePath As String Dim ExecutablePath As String DataFilePath = Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D20").Value & Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) & "\" ExecutablePath = Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D23").Value ProcID = Shell(PathName:=ExecutablePath & " " & DataFilePath & ActiveCell.Value, WindowStyle:=vbNormalFocus) End Sub Stephen Hammond wrote: > This sounds like something I would like to try, do you mind sharing the > excel macro? > Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Quake data spreadsheet From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:57:06 -0700 Thanks Larry I'll print it off and play with this and see what I can do with it. Like many, I have a directory full of event files and one of the thing I would like to see winquake do (hint-hint <<>>) is have it add the complete header directly to an existing exec spreadsheet in the winquake subdir via a command key in winquake. I think this would be really handy and enable us to do data analysis without a lot of effort to extract the header and move it into a spreedsheet. Thanks a lot-- Steve Hammond -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Conklin Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:23 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Quake data spreadsheet Hi Setephen, Below is a copy of the macro, cut & pasted right out of the spreadsheet. The basic idea is to use the VBA Shell() function to call an external program and pass the name of the file to be executed as a command line argument. You could do this with most anthing, provided that the program you pick expects command line arguments. Take note that some of the lines in the code got folded to fit this e-mail. (Ie. DataFilePath =.... , ExecutablePath = ... , ProcID = ...) If you want to try it out I'd be happy to send you a copy of the whole thing, along with a little file of "user notes" that I put together. One little Winquake enhancement I'd love to see (hint, hint) is the capability to take more than file name argument on the command line. You can already select more than one file in the file open dialog box, and if the files are compatable (same time parameters) they open together, which allows direct comparison and manipulation of the two files. If I use my spreadsheet to open more than one file, both open in their own windows in Winquake, but any manipulations in one file window do not affect the other. Larry Sub RunWinquake() ' ' Pass a selected event file to Winquake for execution. The ' event file is selected by selecting the event file name in ' the spreadsheet. ' Dim ProcID Dim DataFilePath As String Dim ExecutablePath As String DataFilePath = Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D20").Value & Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) & "\" ExecutablePath = Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D23").Value ProcID = Shell(PathName:=ExecutablePath & " " & DataFilePath & ActiveCell.Value, WindowStyle:=vbNormalFocus) End Sub Stephen Hammond wrote: > This sounds like something I would like to try, do you mind sharing the > excel macro? > Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Quake data spreadsheet From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Steve I second the motion. What if a window came up and you could check boxes for= the header data you wanted to transfer?=20 Barry --- On Sat, 10/24/09, Stephen Hammond wrote: From: Stephen Hammond Subject: RE: Quake data spreadsheet To: psn-l@.............. Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009, 9:57 AM Thanks Larry I'll print it off and play with this and see what I can do wit= h it. Like many, I have a directory full of event files and one of the thing = I would like to see winquake do (hint-hint <<>>) is have it add the complete header directly to an existing exec spreadsheet in the winquake subdir via a command key in winquake. I think this would be really handy an= d enable us to do data analysis without a lot of effort to extract the header and move it into a spreedsheet.=20 Thanks a lot-- Steve Hammond -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Conklin Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:23 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Quake data spreadsheet Hi Setephen, Below is a copy of the macro, cut & pasted right out of the spreadsheet.=20 =A0 The basic idea is to use the VBA Shell() function to call an external= =20 program and pass the name of the file to be executed as a command line=20 argument.=A0 You could do this with most anthing, provided that the=20 program you pick expects command line arguments.=A0 Take note that some of= =20 the lines in the code got folded to fit this e-mail.=A0 (Ie. DataFilePath= =20 =3D.... , ExecutablePath =3D ... , ProcID =3D ...) If you want to try it out I'd be happy to send you a copy of the whole=20 thing, along with a little file of "user notes" that I put together. One little Winquake enhancement I'd love to see (hint, hint) is the=20 capability to take more than file name argument on the command line.=20 You can already select more than one file in the file open dialog box,=20 and if the files are compatable (same time parameters) they open=20 together, which allows direct comparison and manipulation of the two=20 files.=A0 If I use my spreadsheet to open more than one file, both open in= =20 their own windows in Winquake, but any manipulations in one file window=20 do not affect the other. Larry Sub RunWinquake() ' ' Pass a selected event file to Winquake for execution.=A0 The ' event file is selected by selecting the event file name in ' the spreadsheet. ' Dim ProcID Dim DataFilePath=A0 =A0 As String Dim ExecutablePath=A0 As String DataFilePath =3D Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D20").Value & Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) & "\" ExecutablePath =3D Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D23").Value ProcID =3D Shell(PathName:=3DExecutablePath & " " & DataFilePath &=20 ActiveCell.Value, WindowStyle:=3DvbNormalFocus) End Sub Stephen Hammond wrote: > This sounds like something I would like to try, do you mind sharing the > excel macro? > Steve Hammond=A0 PSN Aptos, CA >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
Steve
I second the motion. What if a windo= w came up and you could check boxes for the header data you wanted to trans= fer?
Barry

--- On Sat, 10/24/09, Stephen Hammond <shamm= on1@.............> wrote:

From: = Stephen Hammond <shammon1@.............>
Subject: RE: Quake data s= preadsheet
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Saturday, October 24, 2009,= 9:57 AM

Thanks Larry I'll print it off and= play with this and see what I can do with
it. Like many, I have a direc= tory full of event files and one of the thing I
would like to see winqua= ke do (hint-hint <<<Grin>>>) is have it add the
comple= te header directly to an existing exec spreadsheet in the winquake
subdi= r via a command key in winquake. I think this would be really handy and
enable = us to do data analysis without a lot of effort to extract the header
and= move it into a spreedsheet.

Thanks a lot-- Steve Hammond

--= ---Original Message-----
From: psn-l-requ= est@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request= @..............] On
Behalf Of Larry Conklin
Sent: Saturday, Octob= er 24, 2009 6:23 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subj= ect: Re: Quake data spreadsheet

Hi Setephen,

Below is a copy = of the macro, cut & pasted right out of the spreadsheet.
  The= basic idea is to use the VBA Shell() function to call an external
prog= ram and pass the name of the file to be executed as a command line
argument.  = You could do this with most anthing, provided that the
program you pick= expects command line arguments.  Take note that some of
the lines= in the code got folded to fit this e-mail.  (Ie. DataFilePath
=3D= ..... , ExecutablePath =3D ... , ProcID =3D ...)

If you want to try i= t out I'd be happy to send you a copy of the whole
thing, along with a = little file of "user notes" that I put together.

One little Winquake= enhancement I'd love to see (hint, hint) is the
capability to take mor= e than file name argument on the command line.
You can already select m= ore than one file in the file open dialog box,
and if the files are com= patable (same time parameters) they open
together, which allows direct = comparison and manipulation of the two
files.  If I use my spreads= heet to open more than one file, both open in
their own windows in Winquake, but any manipulations in one file window
do not affect the o= ther.

Larry


Sub RunWinquake()
'
' Pass a selected e= vent file to Winquake for execution.  The
' event file is selected = by selecting the event file name in
' the spreadsheet.
'
Dim ProcI= D
Dim DataFilePath    As String
Dim ExecutablePath  As= String

DataFilePath =3D Environ("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D20").= Value &
Left(ActiveCell.Value, 2) & "\"
ExecutablePath =3D En= viron("WQPATH") & Range("Notes!D23").Value

ProcID =3D Shell(Path= Name:=3DExecutablePath & " " & DataFilePath &
ActiveCell.Va= lue, WindowStyle:=3DvbNormalFocus)

End Sub

Stephen Hammond wr= ote:
> This sounds like something I would like to try, do you mind sh= aring the
> excel macro?
> Steve Hammond  PSN Aptos, CA>
__________________________________________________________

Publ= ic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the b= ody of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.c= om/maillist.html for more information.

_________________________= _________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing Lis= t (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PS= N-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line= only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: instrument design From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:26:46 -0400 It looks like an inverted pendulum to me, with a spring hinge at the bottom. On 10/24/09, meredith lamb wrote: > Hi James, > > Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! The pictures were ~ > vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top. Interesting hanging > mass approach. I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensor > on the bottom for rough centering purposes? The seller may send a PDF > file on such which might > also give more overall insight. > > Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat metal > strip would work out? > > Meredith > > On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen wrote: > >> To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on Ebay >> with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. >> Jim Allen >> >> >> >> > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: instrument design From: "tchannel" tchannel@............ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:32:39 -0600 I do not see this on ebay, could you send me the item #? tchannel@............ Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: instrument design > It looks like an inverted pendulum to me, with a spring hinge at the > bottom. > > On 10/24/09, meredith lamb wrote: >> Hi James, >> >> Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! The pictures >> were ~ >> vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top. Interesting >> hanging >> mass approach. I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensor >> on the bottom for rough centering purposes? The seller may send a PDF >> file on such which might >> also give more overall insight. >> >> Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat metal >> strip would work out? >> >> Meredith >> >> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen >> wrote: >> >>> To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on >>> Ebay >>> with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. >>> Jim Allen >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: instrument design From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:05:44 -0600 Hi all, The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold. The pictures are still there for viewing, if one goes down the page thereon. However, the patent number is known, which gives insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; to derive such a long ~ 5 second period, in case anybody is interested. The patent number is 3,685,011 and it can readily be seen on the Google Patents search program. Go to the Google search engine, clich the "other" link and go down to the Patents search program and enter in the patent number. One can fully review the text and drawings and download such with no fuss. My initial "impression" is that it is kind of a "mix" of the old Wechert (with the springs much lower), and even possibly "somewhat" like a gravitational pendulum of more recent design....if, the mass pendulum can be raised or lowered on the boom. Its a very interesting design which ~ might even be useful for a unidirectional sensor application; i.e., N-S and/or E-W, all in one instrument...but I suppose that possiblity might be taking it too far for whatever various reason/s. Take care, Meredith Lamb On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tchannel wrote: > I do not see this on ebay, could you send me the item #? > > tchannel@............ > > Thanks, Ted > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" < > bobmcclure90@.........> > > To: > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:26 AM > Subject: Re: instrument design > > > > It looks like an inverted pendulum to me, with a spring hinge at the >> bottom. >> >> On 10/24/09, meredith lamb wrote: >> >>> Hi James, >>> >>> Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! The pictures >>> were ~ >>> vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top. Interesting >>> hanging >>> mass approach. I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensor >>> on the bottom for rough centering purposes? The seller may send a PDF >>> file on such which might >>> also give more overall insight. >>> >>> Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat metal >>> strip would work out? >>> >>> Meredith >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen >>> wrote: >>> >>> To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on Ebay >>>> with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. >>>> Jim Allen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >
Hi all,
=A0
The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold.=A0 The pictures are s= till there for viewing, if one
goes down the page thereon.
=A0
However, the patent number is known, which gives
insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; to der= ive such a long=A0~ 5 second period,
in case anybody is interested.=A0 The patent number is 3,685,011 and i= t can readily be seen on the Google
Patents search program.=A0 Go to the Google search engine, clich the &= quot;other" link and go down to the=A0
Patents search=A0program and enter in the patent number.=A0 One can fu= lly review the text and drawings and
download such with no fuss.=A0=A0My initial "impression" is = that it is kind of a "mix" of the old Wechert (with the springs m= uch lower), and even possibly "somewhat" like a gravitational pen= dulum of more recent design....if,
the mass pendulum can be raised or lowered on the boom.=A0 Its a very = interesting design which ~ might
even be useful for a unidirectional sensor application; i.e., N-S=A0an= d/or E-W, all in one instrument...but=A0I
suppose that possiblity might be taking it too far for whatever variou= s reason/s.=A0
=A0
Take care, Meredith Lamb
=A0
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tchannel <tchannel@............> wrote:
I do not see this on ebay, could= you send me the item #?

tchannel@............

Thanks, Ted


----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert = McClure" <bobmcclure90@.........>=20 Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:2= 6 AM
Subject: Re: instrument design=20



=A0It looks like an inverted pen= dulum to me, with a spring hinge at the bottom.

On 10/24/09, meredit= h lamb <pal= eoartifact@.........> wrote:
Hi James,

Thanks very muc= h for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! =A0The pictures were ~
vague, b= ut I think I see the flat metal strip on top. =A0Interesting hanging
mass approach. =A0I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensoron the bottom for rough centering purposes? =A0The seller may send a PDF<= br>file on such which might
also give more overall insight.

Makes= me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat metal
strip would work out?

Meredith

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 P= M, James Allen <jcallen1@...........> wrote:

=A0To Meredith and all, there is= a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on Ebay
with the case removed so tha= t you can see the mechanism.
Jim Allen





________________= __________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Ma= iling List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. = with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismic= net.com/maillist.html for more information.

______= ____________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list e= mail PSN-= L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only)= : unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
<= /div>

Subject: Re: instrument design From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:20:10 -0400 Hi, I have a pdf of that patent http://bnordgren.org/seismo/us003685011.pdf which is quite detailed, so long as you don't mind reading the "patentese" text. Brett At 01:05 PM 10/24/2009 -0600, you wrote: >Hi all, > >The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold. The pictures are still >there for viewing, if one >goes down the page thereon. > >However, the patent number is known, which gives >insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; to derive >such a long ~ 5 second period, >in case anybody is interested. The patent number is 3,685,011 and it can >readily be seen on the Google >Patents search program. Watch our wiggles http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm or watch some very very good wiggles http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Instrument quality - microseisms From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:33:38 -0700 FYI, the following Navy weather site gives a little= more info on ocean waves, including period, for those who may want to try and see a correlation with seismo waveform???

It is a little more involved than the link I sent the other day, getting to the info, but if you play with it for a while you will figure it out.=A0 For example, once you click on an icon, it will take you to a short list of choices; =A0 Here, if you click on a single "time"= button, rather than an "all" button, you will get a list to the left side of the chart for a lot more info for different types of waves and periods; along with other weather choices.
https://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/ww3_cgi/index.html

Here is a link to a story where they intend to use seismograms to try and find unrecorded historical hurricanes.
http://www.geosociety.org/news/pr/09-60.htm
=A0 Enjoy,=A0 Stephen
=A0 PSN Station #55
=A0 38.828N=A0 120.979W
=A0 near Pilot Hill Ca. USA


Subject: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "James Allen" jcallen1@........... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:56:46 -0700 Does anyone have or know of a place where I can obtain a replacement ink = dispensing writing stylus for a Teledyne-Geotech Helicorder? Thanks James Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: meredith lamb=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: Re: instrument design Hi all, The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold. The pictures are = still there for viewing, if one goes down the page thereon. However, the patent number is known, which gives insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; to = derive such a long ~ 5 second period, in case anybody is interested. The patent number is 3,685,011 and it = can readily be seen on the Google Patents search program. Go to the Google search engine, clich the = "other" link and go down to the=20 Patents search program and enter in the patent number. One can fully = review the text and drawings and download such with no fuss. My initial "impression" is that it is = kind of a "mix" of the old Wechert (with the springs much lower), and = even possibly "somewhat" like a gravitational pendulum of more recent = design....if, the mass pendulum can be raised or lowered on the boom. Its a very = interesting design which ~ might even be useful for a unidirectional sensor application; i.e., N-S = and/or E-W, all in one instrument...but I suppose that possiblity might be taking it too far for whatever = various reason/s.=20 Take care, Meredith Lamb On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tchannel = wrote: I do not see this on ebay, could you send me the item #? tchannel@............ Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" = =20 To: Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: instrument design=20 It looks like an inverted pendulum to me, with a spring hinge at = the bottom. On 10/24/09, meredith lamb wrote: Hi James, Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! The = pictures were ~ vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top. = Interesting hanging mass approach. I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensor on the bottom for rough centering purposes? The seller may send = a PDF file on such which might also give more overall insight. Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the = flat metal strip would work out? Meredith On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen = wrote: To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently = listed on Ebay with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. Jim Allen __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Does anyone have or know of a place = where I can=20 obtain a replacement ink dispensing writing stylus for a = Teledyne-Geotech=20 Helicorder?
Thanks
James Allen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 24, = 2009 12:05=20 PM
Subject: Re: instrument = design

Hi all,
 
The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold.  The = pictures are=20 still there for viewing, if one
goes down the page thereon.
 
However, the patent number is known, which gives
insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; = to derive=20 such a long ~ 5 second period,
in case anybody is interested.  The patent number is = 3,685,011 and=20 it can readily be seen on the Google
Patents search program.  Go to the Google search engine, = clich the=20 "other" link and go down to the 
Patents search program and enter in the patent number.  = One can=20 fully review the text and drawings and
download such with no fuss.  My initial "impression" is = that it=20 is kind of a "mix" of the old Wechert (with the springs much lower), = and even=20 possibly "somewhat" like a gravitational pendulum of more recent=20 design....if,
the mass pendulum can be raised or lowered on the boom.  Its = a very=20 interesting design which ~ might
even be useful for a unidirectional sensor application; i.e.,=20 N-S and/or E-W, all in one instrument...but I
suppose that possiblity might be taking it too far for whatever = various=20 reason/s. 
 
Take care, Meredith Lamb
 
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tchannel = <tchannel@............> wrote:
I do not see this on ebay, could you send me the = item=20 #?

tchannel@............

Thanks, = Ted


-----=20 Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" <bobmcclure90@.........>=20 Sent: = Saturday, October=20 24, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: instrument design=20



 It looks like an inverted pendulum to me, = with a=20 spring hinge at the bottom.

On 10/24/09, meredith lamb = <paleoartifact@.........> wrote:
Hi James,

Thanks very much for the = E-Bay note=20 on the seismometer!  The pictures were ~
vague, but I = think I=20 see the flat metal strip on top.  Interesting = hanging
mass=20 approach.  I am "speculating" that it has a photo = sensor
on the=20 bottom for rough centering purposes?  The seller may send a = PDF
file on such which might
also give more overall=20 insight.

Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that = replaces=20 the flat metal
strip would work = out?

Meredith

On Fri,=20 Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen <jcallen1@...........> wrote:

 To Meredith and all, there is a = Kinemetrics=20 SH1 currently listed on Ebay
with the case removed so that = you can=20 see the mechanism.
Jim=20 = Allen





__________________= ________________________________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list = email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body = of the=20 message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for = more=20 information.=20 =

____________________________________________________= ______

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message=20 (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = = information.

Subject: Re: instrument design From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:13:24 -0600 Hi Brett and all, Excellent PDF file there; thanks for sharing! The E-Bay seller advises me that each coil is ~ 1975 ohms each; and that it has a .4 ohm calibration coil thereon also....perhaps some info that might not be on the patent info and such. Meredith Lamb On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Brett Nordgren wrote: > Hi, > > I have a pdf of that patent http://bnordgren.org/seismo/us003685011.pdf which is quite detailed, so long as you don't mind reading the "patentese" > text. > > Brett > > > > At 01:05 PM 10/24/2009 -0600, you wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold. The pictures are still >> there for viewing, if one >> goes down the page thereon. >> >> However, the patent number is known, which gives >> insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; to derive >> such a long ~ 5 second period, >> in case anybody is interested. The patent number is 3,685,011 and it can >> readily be seen on the Google >> Patents search program. >> > > > > Watch our wiggles > http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm > > or watch some very very good wiggles > http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >
Hi Brett and all,
=A0
Excellent PDF file there; thanks for sharing!
=A0
The E-Bay seller advises me that=A0each coil is ~ 1975 ohms each; and = that it has a .4 ohm calibration
coil thereon also....perhaps some info that might not be on the patent= info and such.
=A0
Meredith Lamb=A0=A0=A0=A0

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:20 PM, Brett Nordgren = <brett3nt@.............> wrote:
Hi,

I have a pdf of that = patent =A0http://bnordgren.org/seismo/us003685011.pdf =A0which is quite = detailed, so long as you don't mind reading the "patentese" t= ext.

Brett=20



At 01:05 PM 10/24/2009 -0600, you wrote:
Hi all,

The E-Bay # is 18= 0423674973 however it was sold. =A0The pictures are still there for viewing= , if one
goes down the page thereon.

However, the patent number is known, whi= ch gives
insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument;= to derive such a long ~ 5 second period,
in case anybody is interested.= =A0The patent number is 3,685,011 and it can readily be seen on the Google=
Patents search program.

<clip>

Watch= our wiggles
http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm

or watc= h some very very good wiggles
http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_da= ta/ANMO_24hr.html=20



__________________________________________________________=

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this li= st email = PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line o= nly): unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
<= /div>

Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:28:42 EDT James, Try Geotech Instruments in Dallas, phone 214-221-0000. Al In a message dated 10/24/2009 2:57:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jcallen1@........... writes: Does anyone have or know of a place where I can obtain a replacement ink dispensing writing stylus for a Teledyne-Geotech Helicorder? Thanks James Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: _meredith lamb_ (mailto:paleoartifact@.......... To: _psn-l@............... (mailto:psn-l@............... Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:05 PM Subject: Re: instrument design Hi all, The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold. The pictures are still there for viewing, if one goes down the page thereon. However, the patent number is known, which gives insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument; to derive such a long ~ 5 second period, in case anybody is interested. The patent number is 3,685,011 and it can readily be seen on the Google Patents search program. Go to the Google search engine, clich the "other" link and go down to the Patents search program and enter in the patent number. One can fully review the text and drawings and download such with no fuss. My initial "impression" is that it is kind of a "mix" of the old Wechert (with the springs much lower), and even possibly "somewhat" like a gravitational pendulum of more recent design....if, the mass pendulum can be raised or lowered on the boom. Its a very interesting design which ~ might even be useful for a unidirectional sensor application; i.e., N-S and/or E-W, all in one instrument...but I suppose that possiblity might be taking it too far for whatever various reason/s. Take care, Meredith Lamb On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tchannel <_tchannel@............. (mailto:tchannel@............. > wrote: I do not see this on ebay, could you send me the item #? _tchannel@............. (mailto:tchannel@............. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" <_bobmcclure90@.......... (mailto:bobmcclure90@.......... > To: <_psn-l@............... (mailto:psn-l@............... > Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: instrument design It looks like an inverted pendulum to me, with a spring hinge at the bottom. On 10/24/09, meredith lamb <_paleoartifact@.......... (mailto:paleoartifact@.......... > wrote: Hi James, Thanks very much for the E-Bay note on the seismometer! The pictures were ~ vague, but I think I see the flat metal strip on top. Interesting hanging mass approach. I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensor on the bottom for rough centering purposes? The seller may send a PDF file on such which might also give more overall insight. Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that replaces the flat metal strip would work out? Meredith On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, James Allen <_jcallen1@............ (mailto:jcallen1@............ > wrote: To Meredith and all, there is a Kinemetrics SH1 currently listed on Ebay with the case removed so that you can see the mechanism. Jim Allen __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email _PSN-L-REQUEST@............... (mailto:PSN-L-REQUEST@............... with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See _http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html_ (http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html) for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email _PSN-L-REQUEST@............... (mailto:PSN-L-REQUEST@............... with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See _http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html_ (http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html) for more information.
James,
Try Geotech Instruments in Dallas, phone=20 214-221-0000.
 Al
 
In a message dated 10/24/2009 2:57:11 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 jcallen1@........... writes:
Does anyone have or know of a place whe= re I can=20 obtain a replacement ink dispensing writing stylus for a Teledyne-Geotec= h=20 Helicorder?
Thanks
James Allen
----- Original Message -----
= From:=20 meredith lamb
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 200= 9 12:05=20 PM
Subject: Re: instrument design<= /DIV>

Hi all,
 
The E-Bay # is 180423674973 however it was sold.  The pictur= es are=20 still there for viewing, if one
goes down the page thereon.
 
However, the patent number is known, which gives
insight into the mechanical design for such a small instrument;= to=20 derive such a long ~ 5 second period,
in case anybody is interested.  The patent number is 3,685,0= 11 and=20 it can readily be seen on the Google
Patents search program.  Go to the Google search engine, cli= ch the=20 "other" link and go down to the 
Patents search program and enter in the patent number. = One=20 can fully review the text and drawings and
download such with no fuss.  My initial "impression" is= that=20 it is kind of a "mix" of the old Wechert (with the springs much lower)= , and=20 even possibly "somewhat" like a gravitational pendulum of more recent= =20 design....if,
the mass pendulum can be raised or lowered on the boom.  Its= a=20 very interesting design which ~ might
even be useful for a unidirectional sensor application; i.e.,=20 N-S and/or E-W, all in one instrument...but I
suppose that possiblity might be taking it too far for whatever= various=20 reason/s. 
 
Take care, Meredith Lamb
 
On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 12:32 PM, tchannel <tchannel@............> wrote:
I do not see this on ebay, could you send me the= item=20 #?

tchannel@............

Thanks,=20 Ted


----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure"= <bobmcclure90@.........>=20 Sent: Saturday= ,=20 October 24, 2009 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: instrument design=20



 It looks like an inverted pendulum to me,= with a=20 spring hinge at the bottom.

On 10/24/09, meredith lamb <= paleoartifact@.........> wrote:
Hi James,

Thanks very much for the E-Ba= y note=20 on the seismometer!  The pictures were ~
vague, but I th= ink I=20 see the flat metal strip on top.  Interesting hanging
ma= ss=20 approach.  I am "speculating" that it has a photo sensoron=20 the bottom for rough centering purposes?  The seller may se= nd a=20 PDF
file on such which might
also give more overall=20 insight.

Makes me wonder whether a round piano wire that= =20 replaces the flat metal
strip would work=20 out?

Meredith

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Jam= es=20 Allen <jcallen1@...........> wrote:

 To Meredith and all, there is a Kineme= trics=20 SH1 currently listed on Ebay
with the case removed so that= you=20 can see the mechanism.
Jim=20 Allen





_________= _________________________________________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list ema= il PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body= of the=20 message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.=20

_______________________________________________= ___________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email= PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of th= e=20 message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more= =20 information.

 Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:38:34 -0600 James, Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. The tips of worn pens usually gets worn out or abrasively flattened to where the ink flow smears all over the place; rather than flow evenly and write with little snagging "sharpened" pen tip effect...as you likely already know. I've never figured out how to "round out" or "smooth the outside and inside" of the writing tips to effectively, re-use such. Sometimes....the pen tip isn't exactly flat to the writing drum surface (the prior tube gets bent up, down or sideways...and this condition will give the impression that the pen isn't working...you might check that first....in all directions of movement. Heated (electrical resistance) tips might be a consideration, but the thermal paper prices are out of this world for obtaining and prices are the same of course. If you want to eventually take it email private, I do have a "junk box" assortment of other brand pens; that ~~~might~~~be mechanically adaptable if all else fails. It might involve cutting, solder or glue or other monstrocities of the original pen. If you have a accurate micrometer or vernier gauge that tells the outside and (rough) inside diameter of the pen; that "might" help. Chances are probably poor for a match; and it may involve you "adapting" a different brand or size. There is zero guarantee of my junk; they may be worn out also, or dried ink clogged; I've not used such for many years...it can be extremely frustrating to fuss with and get a "good" one. Meredith Lamb On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM, James Allen wrote: > Does anyone have or know of a place where I can obtain a replacement ink > dispensing writing stylus for a Teledyne-Geotech Helicorder? > Thanks > James Allen > > > >
James,
=A0
Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as = ink stylus writing went out
long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or un= known condition substitutes) brands.
The tips of worn pens usually gets worn out or abrasively flattened to= where the ink flow smears all over
the place; rather than flow evenly and write with little snagging &quo= t;sharpened" pen tip effect...as you likely already know.=A0 I've = never figured out how to "round out" or "smooth the outside = and inside" of the=A0writing tips to effectively, re-use such.
=A0
Sometimes....the pen tip isn't exactly flat to the writing drum su= rface (the prior tube gets bent up, down
or sideways...and this condition will give the impression that the pen= isn't working...you might check
that first....in all directions of movement.
=A0
Heated (electrical resistance) tips might be a consideration, but the = thermal paper prices are out of this
world for obtaining and prices are the same of course.
=A0
If you want to eventually take it email private, I do have a "jun= k box" assortment of other brand pens; that ~~~might~~~be mechanically= adaptable if all else fails.=A0 It might involve cutting, solder or glue o= r other
monstrocities of the original pen.=A0 If you have a accurate micromete= r or vernier gauge that tells the outside and (rough) inside diameter of th= e pen;=A0that "might" help.=A0 Chances are probably poor for a ma= tch; and it may involve you "adapting" a different brand or size.= =A0 There is zero guarantee of my junk; they may be worn out also, or dried= ink clogged; I've not used such for many years...it can be=A0extremely= frustrating to fuss with and get a "good" one.
=A0
Meredith Lamb
=A0=A0=A0

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM, James Allen <jcallen1@verizon= ..net> wrote:
Does anyone have or know of a place wh= ere I can obtain a replacement ink dispensing writing stylus for a Teledyne= -Geotech Helicorder?
Thanks
James Allen
=A0
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "James Allen" jcallen1@........... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:03:12 -0700 Thanks Al and Meredith regarding sourcing ink writing stylus for = helicorder. I guess I will stick with the thermal stylus that is on the = unit for the time being and contact Geotech and see if I can afford an = exact replacement. James Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: meredith lamb=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER James, Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as = ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or = unknown condition substitutes) brands. The tips of worn pens usually gets worn out or abrasively flattened to = where the ink flow smears all over the place; rather than flow evenly and write with little snagging = "sharpened" pen tip effect...as you likely already know. I've never = figured out how to "round out" or "smooth the outside and inside" of the = writing tips to effectively, re-use such. Sometimes....the pen tip isn't exactly flat to the writing drum = surface (the prior tube gets bent up, down or sideways...and this condition will give the impression that the pen = isn't working...you might check that first....in all directions of movement. Heated (electrical resistance) tips might be a consideration, but the = thermal paper prices are out of this world for obtaining and prices are the same of course. If you want to eventually take it email private, I do have a "junk = box" assortment of other brand pens; that ~~~might~~~be mechanically = adaptable if all else fails. It might involve cutting, solder or glue = or other monstrocities of the original pen. If you have a accurate micrometer = or vernier gauge that tells the outside and (rough) inside diameter of = the pen; that "might" help. Chances are probably poor for a match; and = it may involve you "adapting" a different brand or size. There is zero = guarantee of my junk; they may be worn out also, or dried ink clogged; = I've not used such for many years...it can be extremely frustrating to = fuss with and get a "good" one. Meredith Lamb =20 On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM, James Allen = wrote: Does anyone have or know of a place where I can obtain a replacement = ink dispensing writing stylus for a Teledyne-Geotech Helicorder? Thanks James Allen
Thanks Al and Meredith regarding = sourcing ink=20 writing stylus for helicorder.  I guess I will stick with the = thermal=20 stylus that is on the unit for the time being and contact Geotech and = see if I=20 can afford an exact replacement.
James Allen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Saturday, October 24, = 2009 2:38=20 PM
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH=20 HELICORDER

James,
 
Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but = being as ink=20 stylus writing went out
long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk = or=20 unknown condition substitutes) brands.
The tips of worn pens usually gets worn out or abrasively = flattened to=20 where the ink flow smears all over
the place; rather than flow evenly and write with little snagging = "sharpened" pen tip effect...as you likely already know.  I've = never=20 figured out how to "round out" or "smooth the outside and inside" of=20 the writing tips to effectively, re-use such.
 
Sometimes....the pen tip isn't exactly flat to the writing drum = surface=20 (the prior tube gets bent up, down
or sideways...and this condition will give the impression that = the pen=20 isn't working...you might check
that first....in all directions of movement.
 
Heated (electrical resistance) tips might be a consideration, but = the=20 thermal paper prices are out of this
world for obtaining and prices are the same of course.
 
If you want to eventually take it email private, I do have a = "junk box"=20 assortment of other brand pens; that ~~~might~~~be mechanically = adaptable if=20 all else fails.  It might involve cutting, solder or glue or = other
monstrocities of the original pen.  If you have a accurate=20 micrometer or vernier gauge that tells the outside and (rough) inside = diameter=20 of the pen; that "might" help.  Chances are probably poor = for a=20 match; and it may involve you "adapting" a different brand or = size. =20 There is zero guarantee of my junk; they may be worn out also, or = dried ink=20 clogged; I've not used such for many years...it can be extremely=20 frustrating to fuss with and get a "good" one.
 
Meredith Lamb
   

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 1:56 PM, James Allen = <jcallen1@...........> = wrote:
Does anyone have or know of a place = where I can=20 obtain a replacement ink dispensing writing stylus for a = Teledyne-Geotech=20 Helicorder?
Thanks
James Allen
 
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:08:35 -0600 Hi James, I do know that even ~ 10 years ago; that even the USGS had great difficulties obtaining the thermal pens (because of the high Geotech price they wanted or unavailablility?); they then resorted to their own "homebrew" versions. I don't know the specific resistance wire they used; but a clue could be found by measuring your present thermal wire, in relation to the power source you have and doing some research. They literally heat unwrapped or cut off the old wire, and rewrapped welded/soldered the new resistance wire on the pen shaft/boom insulators...it was delicate, wire expensive and time and tool intensive stuff to do. The same surplus junk possiblity applies...I've some (? brand) thermal pens....if all else fails...they are a lot more long term reliable and easier to maintain. Good luck; in the best sense/meaning. Alas...my surplus guarantee is....10 foot travel/shipping time or 10 seconds whichever comes first...humor. I'am not in the surplus or commercial selling business. Take care, Meredith Lamb On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, James Allen wrote: > Thanks Al and Meredith regarding sourcing ink writing stylus for > helicorder. I guess I will stick with the thermal stylus that is on the > unit for the time being and contact Geotech and see if I can afford an exact > replacement. > James Allen > > > >
Hi James,
=A0
I do know that even ~ 10 years ago; that even the USGS had great diffi= culties obtaining the thermal pens (because of the high Geotech price=A0the= y wanted=A0or unavailablility?); they then resorted to their own "home= brew" versions.=A0 I don't know the specific resistance wire they = used; but a clue could be found by measuring your present thermal wire, in = relation to the power source you have and doing some research.
They literally heat unwrapped or cut off the old wire, and rewrapped w= elded/soldered the new resistance wire on the pen shaft/boom insulators...i= t was delicate, wire expensive=A0and time and tool intensive stuff to do.
=A0
The same surplus junk possiblity applies...I've some (? brand) the= rmal pens....if all else fails...they are
a lot more long term reliable and easier to maintain.=A0Good luck; in = the best sense/meaning.=A0=A0Alas...my surplus guarantee is....10 foot trav= el/shipping time or 10 seconds whichever comes first...humor.=A0 I'am n= ot
in the surplus or commercial selling business.
=A0
Take care,=A0Meredith Lamb=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0=A0

On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 4:03 PM, James Allen <jcallen1@...........> wrote:
Thanks Al and Meredith regarding sourc= ing ink writing stylus for helicorder.=A0 I guess I will stick with the the= rmal stylus that is on the unit for the time being and contact Geotech and = see if I can afford an exact replacement.
James Allen
=A0
Subject: Earthquake Lists From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:17:30 -0700 To my earthquake friends... I wonder if anybody is interested in creating a common PSN earthquake = list. There is a wonderful tool offered by Google that could be used = called "Google Docs". It allows a group of people access to documents = of common interest. =20 I've set up an example account which you can take a peek at if you want. = =20 WEBSITE: http://docs.google.com ACCOUNT: kay@............. PASSWORD: seismograph Note that only one person can enter this account at a time so be = patient. Now, there is not much value to a group document that only one person = can access at a time. HOWEVER, if anybody has a google account, the = document can be SHARED with that account. What is most amazing is that you can have any number of people editing = the document at the same time, AND, you can actually see others adding = information in real time by watching their keystrokes. I'm not sure who = designed this product but it is quite amazing. So, we could have a master earthquake list under a PSN account. Then = the PSN master can "invite" anybody on the PSN network to share the = list. That person, then, would set up their own Google account and the = spreadsheet would show up in their Google docs list. In this way, we can share valuable information easily. The example spreadsheet that I loaded into Google Docs is not set in = stone. It is just an example of what might be. The entries in the = spreadsheet are: DATE YY/MM/DD=20 TIME(GMT)=20 HR:MN:SS=20 LAT (deg)=20 LON (deg)=20 DEPTH (km) USGS Magnitude (Mw)=20 Earthquake Location=20 My Station Name=20 P-WAVE ARRIVAL TIME(GMT) HR:MN:SS=20 S-WAVE ARRIVAL TIME(GMT) HR:MN:SS=20 Distance to earthquake (deg)=20 Comments The last five entries are specific to your station only. The rest are = specific to the earthquake and common to all stations. You can do all the usually spreadsheet things like sort, etc. You can = also export the data into an Excel spreadsheet local to your computer = for graphing, etc. You can sign up for a Google account at=20 https://www.google.com/accounts It would be nice to set up a dialog to see how many folks might be = interested. Kay Wyatt
To my earthquake friends...
 
I wonder if anybody is interested in creating a = common PSN=20 earthquake list.  There is a wonderful tool offered by Google that = could be=20 used called "Google Docs".  It allows a group of people access to = documents=20 of common interest. 
 
I've set up an example account which you can = take a peek=20 at if you want. 
 
WEBSITE:    http://docs.google.com
ACCOUNT:    kay@.............
PASSWORD:    = seismograph
 
Note that only one person can enter this account = at a time=20 so be patient.
 
Now, there is not much value to a group document = that only=20 one person can access at a time.  HOWEVER, if anybody has a google = account,=20 the document can be SHARED with that account.
 
What is most amazing is that you can have any = number of=20 people editing the document at the same time, AND, you can actually see = others=20 adding information in real time by watching their keystrokes.  I'm = not sure=20 who designed this product but it is quite amazing.
 
So, we could have a master earthquake list under = a PSN=20 account.  Then the PSN master can "invite" anybody on the PSN = network to=20 share the list.  That person, then, would set up their own Google = account=20 and the spreadsheet would show up in their Google docs = list.
 
In this way, we can share valuable information=20 easily.
 
The example spreadsheet that I loaded into = Google Docs is=20 not set in stone.  It is just an example of what might be.  = The=20 entries in the spreadsheet are:
DATE YY/MM/DD 
TIME(GMT)
HR:MN:SS 
LAT (deg) 
LON (deg) 
DEPTH (km)
USGS Magnitude (Mw) 
Earthquake Location 
My Station Name 
P-WAVE ARRIVAL TIME(GMT) = HR:MN:SS 
S-WAVE ARRIVAL TIME(GMT) = HR:MN:SS 
Distance to earthquake = (deg) 
Comments
The last five entries are specific to = your station=20 only.  The rest are specific to the earthquake and common to all=20 stations.
 
You can do all the usually spreadsheet = things like=20 sort, etc.  You can also export the data into an Excel spreadsheet = local to=20 your computer for graphing, etc.
 
You can sign up for a Google account at =
https://www.google.com/accounts<= /A>
 
It would be nice to set up a dialog to see how = many folks=20 might be interested.
 
Kay Wyatt
 
 

Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:54:16 EDT In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm. Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the wire to be Nichrome. Regards, Chris Chapman .
In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time,=20 paleoartifact@......... writes:
Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being= as ink=20 stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other=20 (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes)=20 brands.
Hi James,
 
    It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink dr= awing=20 pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which= can=20 be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones= which=20 I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs are avai= lable=20 separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.
    Note that you can also buy fine stainless ste= el=20 tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked= pens=20 with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also break= s down=20 the ink quite well.
    Note that hot wires are usually spot welded= on. I=20 would expect the wire to be Nichrome.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
    .  
Subject: Re: Earthquake Lists From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:49:41 +1100
Hi Kay,
             Do you realise we already have a common PSN quake list ??
  Larry Cochrane has been running one since the early days and already has many
 1000's of events listed  recent and in archives from the PSN members

people are able to download a gif image of some ones event for a quick look or download the data to load into their winquake to do their own filtering etc in that event file.
see....   http://psn.quake.net/cgi-dos/event.exe

cheers
Dave N
Sydney
Australia





At 04:17 PM 10/24/2009 -0700, you wrote:
To my earthquake friends...
 
I wonder if anybody is interested in creating a common PSN earthquake list.  There is a wonderful tool offered by Google that could be used called "Google Docs".  It allows a group of people access to documents of common interest. 
 
I've set up an example account which you can take a peek at if you want. 
 
WEBSITE:    http://docs.google.com
ACCOUNT:    kay@.............
PASSWORD:    seismograph
 
Note that only one person can enter this account at a time so be patient.
 
Now, there is not much value to a group document that only one person can access at a time.  HOWEVER, if anybody has a google account, the document can be SHARED with that account.
 
What is most amazing is that you can have any number of people editing the document at the same time, AND, you can actually see others adding information in real time by watching their keystrokes.  I'm not sure who designed this product but it is quite amazing.
 
So, we could have a master earthquake list under a PSN account.  Then the PSN master can "invite" anybody on the PSN network to share the list.  That person, then, would set up their own Google account and the spreadsheet would show up in their Google docs list.
 
In this way, we can share valuable information easily.
 
The example spreadsheet that I loaded into Google Docs is not set in stone.  It is just an example of what might be.  The entries in the spreadsheet are:
DATE YY/MM/DD
TIME(GMT)
HR:MN:SS
LAT (deg)
LON (deg)
DEPTH (km)
USGS Magnitude (Mw)
Earthquake Location
My Station Name
P-WAVE ARRIVAL TIME(GMT) HR:MN:SS
S-WAVE ARRIVAL TIME(GMT) HR:MN:SS
Distance to earthquake (deg)
Comments

The last five entries are specific to your station only.  The rest are specific to the earthquake and common to all stations.
 
You can do all the usually spreadsheet things like sort, etc.  You can also export the data into an Excel spreadsheet local to your computer for graphing, etc.
 
You can sign up for a Google account at
https://www.google.com/accounts
 
It would be nice to set up a dialog to see how many folks might be interested.
 
Kay Wyatt
 
 


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Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "James Allen" jcallen1@........... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:09:10 -0700 I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder. I = appreciate it and will experiment with this approach. James Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, = paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being = as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for = technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be = refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones = which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs = are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.=20 Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide = range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the = special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down = the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the = wire to be Nichrome. Regards, Chris Chapman .
I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a=20 Helicorder.   I appreciate it and will experiment with this=20 approach.
James Allen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, October 24, = 2009 6:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH=20 HELICORDER

In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@.........=20 writes:
Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but = being as=20 ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other=20 (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes)=20 brands.
Hi James,
 
    It's just an idea, but I can still buy = ink=20 drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink = cartridges=20 which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml = bottles.=20 The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring = Isograph=20 nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.
    Note that you can also buy fine stainless = steel=20 tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning = blocked pens=20 with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also = breaks=20 down the ink quite well.
    Note that hot wires are usually spot = welded on. I=20 would expect the wire to be Nichrome.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
    . =  
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "James Allen" jcallen1@........... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:31:45 -0700 For anyone else facing using ink in an old Teledyne-Geotech Helicorder, = I was just informed that one might use the very small felt tip ink pens = used on hygrothermographs. I understand they come in blue or red ink = color, last a long time and will just slip over the end of the = helicorder stylus with minor modification. James Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, = paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being = as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for = technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be = refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones = which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs = are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.=20 Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide = range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the = special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down = the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the = wire to be Nichrome. Regards, Chris Chapman .
For anyone else facing using ink in an old Teledyne-Geotech = Helicorder, I=20 was just informed that one might use the very small felt tip ink pens = used on=20 hygrothermographs.  I understand they come in blue or red ink = color, last a=20 long time and will just slip over the end of the helicorder stylus with = minor=20 modification.
James Allen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, October 24, = 2009 6:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH=20 HELICORDER

In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@.........=20 writes:
Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but = being as=20 ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other=20 (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes)=20 brands.
Hi James,
 
    It's just an idea, but I can still buy = ink=20 drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink = cartridges=20 which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml = bottles.=20 The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring = Isograph=20 nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.
    Note that you can also buy fine stainless = steel=20 tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning = blocked pens=20 with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also = breaks=20 down the ink quite well.
    Note that hot wires are usually spot = welded on. I=20 would expect the wire to be Nichrome.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
    . =  
Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:37:31 -0700 For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic needs to build ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip that can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed tube. We learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first Bay area seismic station way before our time in the 40's. I ran two drum recorders back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station at Bonfante Gardens in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put together for them also using this design. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of James Allen Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder. I appreciate it and will experiment with this approach. James Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm. Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the wire to be Nichrome. Regards, Chris Chapman .

For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic = needs to build ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip = that  can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed tube. We = learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first Bay area = seismic station way before our time in the 40’s. I ran two drum recorders = back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station at Bonfante = Gardens  in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put together for them also = using this design.

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, = CA

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of James Allen
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder.   I appreciate it and will experiment with this = approach.

James Allen

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM

Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, = paleoartifact@......... = writes:

Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz = suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) = brands.

Hi James,

 

    It's just an idea, but I can still = buy ink drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink = cartridges which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml = bottles. The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph = nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.

    Note that you can also buy fine = stainless steel tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning = blocked pens with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid = also breaks down the ink quite well.

    Note that hot wires are usually = spot welded on. I would expect the wire to be Nichrome.

 

    Regards,

 

    Chris Chapman

    .  

Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:41:40 -0700 There is a typo. Not needs try needle. Steve From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:38 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic needs to build ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip that can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed tube. We learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first Bay area seismic station way before our time in the 40's. I ran two drum recorders back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station at Bonfante Gardens in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put together for them also using this design. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of James Allen Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder. I appreciate it and will experiment with this approach. James Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm. Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the wire to be Nichrome. Regards, Chris Chapman .

There is a typo. Not needs try needle… = Steve

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Stephen Hammond
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:38 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic = needs to build ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip = that  can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed = tube. We learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first = Bay area seismic station way before our time in the 40’s. I ran two drum = recorders back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station at Bonfante = Gardens  in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put together for them = also using this design.

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, = CA

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of James Allen
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder.   I appreciate it and will experiment with this = approach.

James Allen

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM

Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, = paleoartifact@......... = writes:

Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz = suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands.

Hi James,

 

    It's just an idea, but I can still = buy ink drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink = cartridges which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml = bottles. The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph = nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.

    Note that you can also buy fine = stainless steel tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning = blocked pens with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid = also breaks down the ink quite well.

    Note that hot wires are usually = spot welded on. I would expect the wire to be Nichrome.

 

    Regards,

 

    Chris Chapman

    .  

Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "James Allen" jcallen1@........... Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:45:48 -0700 Steve Hammond Is there need for a special reservoir to insert the capillary tubing = into or will the ink start flowing by the action of the pen on the chart = paper? Thanks James Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stephen Hammond=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER There is a typo. Not needs try needle. Steve =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:38 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER =20 For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic needs to build = ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip that = can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed tube. We = learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first = Bay area seismic station way before our time in the 40's. I ran two drum = recorders back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station = at Bonfante Gardens in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put = together for them also using this design.=20 Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA =20 =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of James Allen Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER =20 I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder. I = appreciate it and will experiment with this approach. James Allen ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER =20 In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, = paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being = as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to = other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, =20 It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for = technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be = refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones = which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs = are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm.=20 Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide = range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the = special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down = the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect = the wire to be Nichrome. =20 Regards, =20 Chris Chapman . =20
Steve Hammond
Is there need for a special reservoir = to insert the=20 capillary tubing into or will the ink start flowing by the action of the = pen on=20 the chart paper?
Thanks
James Allen
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stephen=20 Hammond
Sent: Saturday, October 24, = 2009 8:41=20 PM
Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH=20 HELICORDER

There=20 is a typo. Not needs try needle=85 Steve

 

From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen=20 Hammond
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:38 = PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subje= ct:=20 RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

For=20 some time some PSN members were using hypodermic needs to build ink = pens. You=20 simply grind the point off and have a precession tip that  can = then be=20 connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed tube. We learned the = process=20 from Howard who used this design back in the first Bay area seismic = station=20 way before our time in the 40=92s. I ran two drum recorders back = around 1990 and=20 Jan Froom currently has a display station at Bonfante Gardens  in = Gilroy=20 CA that has a permanent display he put together for them also using = this=20 design.

Regards,=20 Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA

 

 

From:=20 psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of James Allen
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 = 8:09=20 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: = TELEDYNE-GEOTECH=20 HELICORDER

 

I=20 think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a = Helicorder.   I=20 appreciate it and will experiment with this=20 approach.

James=20 Allen

-----=20 Original Message -----

From: ChrisAtUpw@.......=20

To: psn-l@..............=20

Sent:=20 Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM

Subject:=20 Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

In=20 a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@.........=20 writes:

Perhaps=20 Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as ink = stylus=20 writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other=20 (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes)=20 brands.

Hi=20 James,

 

    It's=20 just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for technical = drawing.=20 They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be refilled and = the ink=20 is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones which I am = familiar with=20 are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs are available = separately from=20 0.1 to 1.0 mm.

    Note=20 that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide range of = sizes. I=20 use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the special = cleaning=20 solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down the ink quite = well.

    Note=20 that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the wire = to be=20 Nichrome.

 

    Regards,

 

    Chris=20 Chapman

    .=20 =  

= Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:13:36 -0700 Hi, the ink will flow if the reservoir fluid level is above the pen. The trick is to keep it from flowing too much. I used a wire clamp on the tubing to cut the flow down. Professional models used low pressure pumps and an fin valve. If I can suggest, search online for "chart pen ink" and you will find the Recorder Charts Pens Company in Newhall CA. 800-758-0740. While they do not list your unit they have a large selection of professional pens, ink and paper. It might be worth a trip to the website or even a call to see what they can offer in the way of a solution. Steve From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of James Allen Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 9:46 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER Steve Hammond Is there need for a special reservoir to insert the capillary tubing into or will the ink start flowing by the action of the pen on the chart paper? Thanks James Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Hammond To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER There is a typo. Not needs try needle. Steve From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:38 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic needs to build ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip that can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed tube. We learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first Bay area seismic station way before our time in the 40's. I ran two drum recorders back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station at Bonfante Gardens in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put together for them also using this design. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, CA From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of James Allen Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder. I appreciate it and will experiment with this approach. James Allen ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:54 PM Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER In a message dated 24/10/2009 22:44:00 GMT Daylight Time, paleoartifact@......... writes: Perhaps Geotech might have such as Al Hrubetz suggests...but being as ink stylus writing went out long ago...one may have to resort to other (surplus...read: junk or unknown condition substitutes) brands. Hi James, It's just an idea, but I can still buy ink drawing pens for technical drawing. They have plastic push on ink cartridges which can be refilled and the ink is available in 250 ml and 23 ml bottles. The ones which I am familiar with are UNO and Rotring. The Rotring Isograph nibs are available separately from 0.1 to 1.0 mm. Note that you can also buy fine stainless steel tube in a wide range of sizes. I use fine piano wire for cleaning blocked pens with the special cleaning solution. Hot Fairy washing up liquid also breaks down the ink quite well. Note that hot wires are usually spot welded on. I would expect the wire to be Nichrome. Regards, Chris Chapman .

Hi, the ink will flow if the reservoir fluid level is = above the pen. The trick is to keep it from flowing too much. I used a wire clamp = on the tubing to cut the flow down. Professional models used low pressure pumps = and an fin valve. If I can suggest, search online for “chart pen = ink” and you will find the Recorder Charts Pens Company in Newhall CA. = 800-758-0740. While they do not list your unit they have a large selection of = professional pens, ink and paper. It might be worth a trip to the website or even a call to = see what they can offer in the way of a solution.

Steve

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of James Allen
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 9:46 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

Steve Hammond

Is there need for a special reservoir to insert the capillary tubing into = or will the ink start flowing by the action of the pen on the chart = paper?

Thanks=

James Allen

----- Original Message -----

From: Stephen Hammond =

Sent:<= /b> Saturday, = October 24, 2009 8:41 PM

Subject: RE: = TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

There is a typo. Not needs try needle… = Steve

 

From:= psn-l-request@............... [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen = Hammond
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:38 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

For some time some PSN members were using hypodermic = needs to build ink pens. You simply grind the point off and have a precession tip = that  can then be connected to the reservoir using a capillary feed = tube. We learned the process from Howard who used this design back in the first = Bay area seismic station way before our time in the 40’s. I ran two drum = recorders back around 1990 and Jan Froom currently has a display station at = Bonfante Gardens  in Gilroy CA that has a permanent display he put together = for them also using this design.

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN Aptos, = CA

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of James Allen
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 8:09 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: TELEDYNE-GEOTECH HELICORDER

 

I think that Chris has a great idea for using ink on a Helicorder.   I appreciate it and will experiment with this = approach.

James Allen

----- Original Message -----